Prepulling mobs as healer

[Sebazy]

The idea of multiple pulls is to speed up the run but in reality it's the opposite in most situations.

Whilst I'd agree that there are a few occasions where wall to wall pulling either isn't viable or more efficient than single pulls, saying that it's slower in most situations is pretty far off the mark in my book. The only times I'd agree with you are the following:

Very low level dungeons, particularly with certain jobs getting their AoE later than others.

Several incompetent players in the party, an especially bad Tank or Healer can cause problems by themselves. One awful DPS doesn't really make much of a difference to me. Two can cause cool down issues on certain nastier pulls though.

Certain older dungeons that either have particularly lax gating or harsh iLvl caps that will frequently allow you to pull way more than is feasible to heal. Aurum Vale is probably the best example of this.

Uhm.. No?

You can complete a dungeon without a healer (sufficed you have a Paladin as your tank). You CANT complete a dungeon without a tank. (no matter the healer type)

It's very doable, but it's also very messy and inefficient.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

Uhm.. No?

You can complete a dungeon without a healer (sufficed you have a Paladin as your tank). You CANT complete a dungeon without a tank. (no matter the healer type)

Again, it's a game and you need to work together with other people in order to succeed. If you don't like the fact that not everyone plays to your level, then you may want to use the Trust System. Because golly gee gosh, I doubt anyone wants to play with you.

Being a healer doesn't mean you get to be a prick to others. Being a healer doesn't mean you're "superior" to others. You do your job and park your egotism at the door.

You can. It's mostly only lower level stuff but it's possible. Heck, I even had 2 tanks in gubal who couldn't keep hate off my drg back at 3.0 launch. I essentially tanked the whole dungeon, including bosses. It wasn't easy but I had a healer friend with me.

[Nedkel]

I wont comment on 'you' but the 'other' players, in general, I'll disagree with.
The idea of multiple pulls is to speed up the run but in reality it's the opposite in most situations.
Healer Damage
While a regen might be enough to keep the group alive it does allow the healer to damage too. Considering they are 25% or the party that holy spam or what ever spell is used is fairly signifiant. And the short stun means no damage or abilities for the party to dodge. A damage increase, depending on what job is doing the AoE, more packs may not be optimal for them so they chip away at the packs rather than doing even damage to them - taking longer.
More dodging
There's also AoE dodging . Depending on what mobs there are there might be large amounts of AoE and adding a new pack would mean you spend more time dodging AoE than you can doing damage. Sure the healer might be able to heal through it but then they can't damage.
And those tanks - chain pulling
There's also the pre-pulls - wait by the barrier to pull faster. That's not making something faster. If you move at pack at 20% to move to the barrier you're making it hard for damage dealers to attack the pack so they have to stop while you take the pack for walkies - wasting buffs, cooldowns and procs. Less damage.
MMO players in general are good at the How - what buttons to press - but not why it's done. Speed pulls are one of those situations, where multiple pulls have disadvantages but because the why is not understood it's done all the time, often to the detriment of the group.

Its not the opposite its simple math.
If you have 2 groups with 8 mobs in it you are far better of pull all of them instead of 1.

DPS job could do twice or more damage as tank or healer, and because of that tanks and healer damage does not matter all that much. Them working harder have little to no impact on the speed, even if healer does half of the damage he would do with single pack you effectively double the damage done by DPS classes when pulling twice as much mobs making things go way faster thats it its simple math.
Fastest run in the world are always wall to wall pulls.

[Liam_Harper]

Keep doing it, new tanks must learn the hard way what they can take or they never will, people afraid of taking damage have no business tanking.

Aye, which is why I never pug tank. Ever.

I tank endgame no problem for my FC, I've tanked for years at a high level in previous MMO's, I can go fast, but I like setting my own pace and if mobs are going to be pulled and start chasing the group in circles while I'm waiting 5 sec on a cooldown or turn around to take a drink, I'm not interested. You also can't fully wall pull in every dungeon, there are a couple with dangerous packs where you grab 3-4 groups, aoe down, then grab the next 3 groups, but as a tank in ff14 apparently that's not your choice to decide that.

Players like yourself have made it clear I'm not welcome as a dungeon tank in ff14. That's perfectly fine, majority rules. So I'm one less tank in the queue.

as far I know healers are for more needed at the moment.

Healing has never been easier and we're in plentiful supply. Don't kid yourself.

[Rita1989]

Uhm.. No?

You can complete a dungeon without a healer (sufficed you have a Paladin as your tank). You CANT complete a dungeon without a tank. (no matter the healer type)

Again, it's a game and you need to work together with other people in order to succeed. If you don't like the fact that not everyone plays to your level, then you may want to use the Trust System. Because golly gee gosh, I doubt anyone wants to play with you.

Being a healer doesn't mean you get to be a prick to others. Being a healer doesn't mean you're "superior" to others. You do your job and park your egotism at the door.

Early dungeon's 100% don't need a tank and I remember in HW completing Xelphatol with no tank because he quit prior to first boss and we were able to finish the dungeon before a replacement showed up and wasn't really that bad tbh

[LaylaTsarra]

Aye, which is why I never pug tank. Ever.

Therer are a LOT OF US who don't pug our tanks because of attitudes and expectations by some in the community. I'll tank with FC and friends but I rarely tank especially higher end stuff in DF. Just not worth it to me personally. And I have a good number of friends who feel exactly the same way.

Edit: I will also add that I rarely rarely run into a situation where someone pulls ahead of the tank and I run more duties than most.

[van_arn]

So it's okay to scare off unsure or newbie tanks because you feel you're more important? Ignoring the fact that, again, time and time people in this very thread have pointed out that simply talking things out and gently helping struggling tanks often gets them pulling big by the end of any dungeon? As a healer main that's really not a good look.

Depends on the level. If they're past level 70+, I absolutely want them to be scared away from tanking if they can't play like they're 70+.

[Valorak]

Meh, dungeons are group content. Whether it's a new person that's still building up their confidence, or just someone taking it easy, I consider it worth an extra five minutes of play time to let them control the tempo and feel comfortable. That way they continue to tank and the community (which includes me) gets more people filling critical roles in the roulette queues. Not to mention that it maintains the positive image of the community which helps bring in/retain new players in general.

Even if you're entirely selfish, helping others is often in your best interest in the long run.

[Kethic]

These arguments are tiresome, no matter what role is asking the question.

If you are the one breaking the group synergy in group content, you are the problem. I don't care if you're a tank pulling to little or too much, a non-tank pulling without explicit permission, or any other role not communicating their skill level and intent when it becomes apparent it differs from group expectations.

Learn to play well with others, communicate, and compromise to be what the entire group needs. Or, leave and find a new group if no compromise can be found. Anything else is childish and selfish.

[Dethstryke]

I'm my experience, I have run into more tanks that will over pull wipe and repeat even if the healer cant keep up than healers that will pull ahead of tanks(which I've never seen personally not saying it doesnt happen it just hasn't happened to me). Also I dont personally think ilvl means the healer can deal with a wall to wall pull. People would rather risk idk 3-7 mins per run big pulling than taking it easy.
And to the people that are like HEALERS ARE MORE IMPORTANT ... NO TANKS ARE both shut up. Tanks protect the party healers keep the tanks from dying. Both jobs are equally important AND theres a reason why some magic dps can heal and raise. I am also one of those tanks with tank anxiety, I have (savage)/(high end) anxiety because I just want people to have a good time. So I'd rather take it easy and give myself the highest chance of not messing up than try to rush the extra few mins and look like a jerk.