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  1. #281
    Player
    DumdogsWorld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    636
    Character
    W'kohrahx Tia
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by 3c-33 View Post
    Your rights end where mine begin.
    Because having those pixels on my screen look different than you intended is a complete violation of your rights. *rolls eyes*
    (15)

  2. #282
    Player
    Krotoan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3,591
    Character
    Krotoan Argaviel
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    I think the critical point I want to make against people saying "others shouldn't be forced to look at your glamour" is that there's a difference between forcing that and demanding to be the centre of attention, versus just not wanting your appearance to be altered by someone else.

    As I wrote in more detail below, I would rather have my character not seen at all, than seen wearing something I don't want them to wear.
    While I understand this desire, it is an unreasonable expectation with any sort of client side rendered graphics on an MMO.




    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post

    At the core of this argument there's a question of how a person thinks about player-characters in this game. The way I think about it, every one of those characters is a "real person", or directly representing one, in a communal world.

    Your character does not stop representing "you" when they appear on my screen. My character does not stop representing "me" when I appear on your screen. I'm not in "your game", we're in a shared game.

    An analogy in the real world would be photographs. An image of a person in a photo is still thought of as "that person", and the image is not detached from the person's identity even if what happens to the image does not affect the real person in any way.

    Right now it is technically possible for someone to take that photograph and then edit it so the person appears to be wearing something they wouldn't want to wear. They may never know it happened, but that doesn't mean they would (or should) be okay with the thought of someone doing it to them.

    Now imagine if Facebook announced a new feature that would automatically alter what people appear to be wearing in photos when they display on your screen. It's only affecting you! Nobody needs to know that their image was changed! ....yeah, I can't see that going down well.
    Real life comparisons don't hold up since the real life consequences for altering someones likeness and misrepresenting them are actual crimes, whereas your online character (as customized as you may think it is) is a piecemeal of pre-generated resources and could never really be used to represent you in any legal way.

    Real life alterations and misrepresentations have legal basis. Your ingame avatar is like a custom car at best, there are probably quite a few characters out there who look just like you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post

    I would quite seriously be happier for people to turn my character entirely invisible than to have them displayed in an outfit that I don't want them seen in.

    A fuzzy 64-bit version of the outfit I picked is still the outfit I picked, just in a different quality of game. It is still conveying my choice and not overriding it.
    You are still being represented in a different way than you chose or wished. I'm not sure if you've ever seen truly all low settings but it's pretty horrid.


    The problem with your solution being if you're in someones party and they cannot see you, actual gameplay gets affected. However if you wanted an option where if someone is "normalizing" glamours you wish to not be visible, audible or partyable. I don't have a problem with that addition since people already request ways to exclude themselves from interacting with certain other players.




    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post

    To be fair, it is more jarring in cutscenes and I wish there was a simple solution that doesn't involve interfering with people's glamour.

    The only solution I would personally be happy with is swapping out the entire character for a generic one, at which point it is no longer "my character forced to wear a different outfit" but playing a different character created by someone else, wearing what that character was designed to wear. But from the way some people complain about our occasional roleplaying interludes, I assume not everyone would be happy with that approach.
    Making peoples characters look like generic representations is the whole point. If the system HAS to swap out your face as well to make you happy that's a reasonable compromise.
    (10)
    Last edited by Krotoan; 02-16-2020 at 09:49 AM.
    WHERE IS THIS KETTLE EVERYONE KEEPS INTRODUCING ME TO?

  3. #283
    Player
    SonKevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    212
    Character
    Fax Machine
    World
    Pandaemonium
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 4
    Quote Originally Posted by VenKitsune View Post
    If they did that...Then what would be the point of glamours? Like really lol
    It's so you can enjoy it. I don't glamour myself for others enjoyment. I glamour outfits that I enjoy. Imagine wearing clothes that other people like instead of wearing clothes that you like.
    (12)

  4. #284
    Player
    Krotoan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    3,591
    Character
    Krotoan Argaviel
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Reaper Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by VenKitsune View Post
    If they did that...Then what would be the point of glamours? Like really lol
    I like to make my character look a certain way because I like that appearance. Not for anyone elses gaze. Compliments are nice of course but they're the last thing I'm going for when I sit there and piece together a new look.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3c-33 View Post
    Now my reasons for not wanting it? Resources, self expression (it's not that deep), immersion breaking mismatched gear, it's already lore friendly (the path to rhalgrs reach literally has a giant boulder illusion in front of it to keep people out, and there's plenty of other areas where glamour is brought up in the msq.) People will work around it and run around in the glamour items themselves. Also, glamour is already a huge part of the game, not only is there glamour on the mogstation, but it would render making literally any of the armor in this game pointless. Why design an entirely new look for new dungeon gear if it's always gonna look like the AF gear anyway? Why create mogstation glamour if it's not getting used? It's backpeddaling.
    Resources are arguable. This would be settled by the actual demand for the feature. If this is something next to nobody wants then fine, don't waste the precious SQUEENIX DEV HOURS™.

    Self Expression. This removes no self expression other than needing to know that absolutely everyone has to "experience" your particular expression if you're in their party or on their screen.

    Immersion breaking mismatched gear would be solved with normalized job AF or generic placeholder glamours. This also solves people directly wearing unglamoured pieces. You could also drop entire placeholder character models if people cannot stand the idea of "their" character in clothes they didn't pick.

    Lore excuses are lame, I agree.

    People who like glamour or enjoy not looking default don't have to use it. Glamour would still be a thing for a lot of the playerbase and new designs would be used. I don't understand why this isn't obvious. It's a proposed option, not a new gamewide enforced thing.
    (14)
    Last edited by Krotoan; 02-16-2020 at 09:42 AM.
    WHERE IS THIS KETTLE EVERYONE KEEPS INTRODUCING ME TO?

  5. #285
    Player
    File2ish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    839
    Character
    Olwen Mercier
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Cithaerias_pyropina View Post
    Bard performance is audible and can be heard in all directions whether you like it or not.
    You can mute it.


    Quote Originally Posted by VenKitsune View Post
    If they did that...Then what would be the point of glamours? Like really lol
    Just a personal opinion: but for me it's because while I make glams for my characters; I do it because I make them look how I want them to look and couldn't care less if someone else cares about what my character looks like.
    (11)
    Last edited by File2ish; 02-16-2020 at 11:34 AM.

  6. #286
    Player
    HeyMcFly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    1,908
    Character
    Khloe Entialpoh
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 100
    It won't hurt to have this option- I'm entirely for it. There is no real negative to having a toggle button that allows you to see someones glamour or instead their armour.
    I personally think the modern-styled outfits/ noctis' hot topic outfit ruin the aesthetic of ffxiv and would love to stop seeing it.

    I'm in favour of having a glamour toggle on/off button so I don't have to see other peoples ridiculous glams- if I want to see peoples great collabs, I go to eorzea collection to see a collection of glams that actually look cohesive and pleasing to the eye
    (9)
    Last edited by HeyMcFly; 02-16-2020 at 11:47 AM.

  7. #287
    Player
    Dakuryon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    105
    Character
    Chanai Malqir
    World
    Zalera
    Main Class
    Culinarian Lv 52
    Quote Originally Posted by Arngrim_Greyashe View Post
    I don't understand why people are so caught up in what others characters are wearing. When I'm running content I barely even notice what race other players are, let alone what they're wearing.

    I would rather devs not waste time on such a function when there are plenty of other issues that need addressing.

    Same here! The only time I'd actually notice others' glamours is during roleplay, dungeon time, or doing my crafting in the major cities, etc. Otherwise my attentions are focused on my MSQ's and FATEs and stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by kujoestars View Post
    I for one am all for getting rid of job restrictions on glamour because if we can have tanks glamming cloth (heck one of my FC officers sometimes tanks in the maid outfit, hahahahhahhaha) or going mostly naked (not that I mind because I’ve seen some beautifully hilarious ones - shout out to “Moist Crevasse” and their Highlander male WAR in pink undies, thighboots, and anime pigtail hair when I did my first run of Praetorium XD) we can have monks and dancers in armor or whatever. Not like they’re wearing the real items anyway.

    And frankly some joblocks make no sense if it’s literally the same material, so yeah.....

    *grumbles about the new steampunk set not giving monks the awesome cap so I can properly live my JoJo dreams*

    This is definitely something I can get behind! It's time for all of us to rise against these strict dress codes and run wild in whatever threads we want! >:3
    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan026 View Post
    Yes this would waste resources and they are far better elsewhere... but you're also imposing your will on someone else.

    Someone didn't want to wear there gear as is and so they glamoured over it (if you take a picture, a video) and their clothes are not shown glamoured in your picture you're impacting them (where as is if you don't want their showing glamour in the picture/video you just choose to make sure their not in it, thus not impacting them at all).

    Seriously some people need to calm down.

    Also the logic stating that leading males wear clothes (Cloud, Squall, Zidane) in general most games put clothes on guys and try to make girls as revealing as possible, in almost every case because let's face it, it can help sell games.

    Lulu anyone? A good portion of the spheredressphres of X-2? Fran? Oh and their is precedence for all the guys wearing dresses with that logic as well, Cloud from VII says hi.

    Exactly! As they say, sex sells. It's a practice that's been proven to work since forever lol
    (1)

  8. #288
    Player
    Penthea's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    3,664
    Character
    Nettle Creidne
    World
    Moogle
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by AcaciaTyrannia View Post
    Yes, I Co-lead a glamour based FC. We have glamour events often, and I love the galmour system.
    Uh...you help lead a glam-based fc but you want to be able to turn off everyone's glams.

    Something here doesn't add up.

    Quote Originally Posted by AcaciaTyrannia View Post
    When I mentioned "I know people who Glam dresses on guys and all of them, literally every single one of them does it to troll,' it's SPECIFICALLy, BECAUSE I lead a glamour based FC and people on my server know us to be fashionista. (So most people who are very serious about glam hang out with us)

    I do not hate glamour. But I do hate that I cannot choose to hide player glamour, when so often player glamour is used to rile, upset and troll people.
    I don't assume all servers are the same but I get the feeling you're greatly exaggerating how many people troll with glams because when you see even one it bothers you tremendously. You're acting like this is some massive problem and I seriously doubt your data centre is drastically different to mine when it comes to glam.

    I'm starting to think this is a case of excellent trolling or glam elitism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zabuza View Post
    So if I, as a man IRL, decide to wear a thong with my junk nearly hanging out, and forcing you to look at it, it's all good right? That's just my self-expression. In a dungeon or similar fights, you are basically forced to look upon the person in the obnoxious clothing.
    Sure if you want to. It's your body, not mine. Do what you want with it. As long as you're hurting no one it doesn't matter to me. If I don't like it how it looks I can just look away and get on with my life.

    A person wearing a thong isn't exactly on the list of my top ten nightmares.

    Also to say you're forced to look at a person in a dungeon is very much inflating the intensity of the issue. Unless you do combat zoomed in on other people's characters?

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodric View Post
    Ah, I was wondering why some of the responses to this thread were so volatile. A certain Twitter blog devoted to taking posts out of context and stirring up outrage decided to target this thread with the usual deceptive approach, essentially encouraging followers of the blog to brigade it as a consequence.

    I urge everybody to be very cautious, since the FFXIV Twitter crowd has a portion of very volatile individuals who like to band together to harass and send death threats to those who dare to post something that they dislike.
    If I'm thinking of the same account, then it is 100% false that the twitter account encourages people to be unpleasant on the forums. The tweets do not say the posts or threads they're from, nor do they say anything other than actual quotes. In other words they're not endorsing anything.

    If a person wants to figure out where a quote comes from they would have to comb the forums to find it. If someone feels strongly enough about something to do that, that's their personal choice.
    (11)

  9. #289
    Player
    Sylvastreak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    45
    Character
    Mitsuko Koizumi
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 90
    I notice that your main complaint is topless men in thongs, not the millions of miqo'te and auri female characters wearing barely anything dyed as close to skin colour as they can manage.

    Weakling.
    (17)

  10. #290
    Player
    NessaWyvern's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    1,920
    Character
    Nessa Goddessly
    World
    Ravana
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 96
    Quote Originally Posted by AcaciaTyrannia View Post
    I've played them most. Cloud, Squall, Tera, Zidane didn't spend the ENTIRE game fighting the forces of opposition in a string bikini with summer sunglasses. it makes your character look stupid. And I'd like the option to hide it. That way you can "Express yourself" all you want, but people who want a more final fantasy/serious experience don't have to look at ridiculous characters that don't make any sense.
    If a Bikini is good enough for Yuna, Rikku, Paine and Serah, it’s good enough for me.
    (9)
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk View Post
    It's the Asstral Calamity, wrought by the dread primal Bahabutt.

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