Prepulling mobs as healer

[Saefinn]

If in doubt, ask. Some tanks might not realise your healing ability, others might not have the confidence and are still learning or gaining that confidence or for whatever reason they're not able to handle big pulls. I've been levelling my PLD of late, if you had me in a party a few days ago if you felt my tanking was below par, it might have been but I had an injured arm, it was fine to play, but not at a higher capacity. And I know somebody who plays that has arthiritis, though she doesn't tank for that reason, but some might do so regardless. Some people have slower reaction speeds.

There's just a whole number of reasons to count that it just seems the best thing you can do when it doubt to just ask. I've had healers ask me to pull more and tanks ask if I'm okay with big pulls.

Just don't do what a tank did the other day and ask if it's okay and then pull everything before I could even finish typing a response, it makes the whole "asking" redundant.

But as somebody who has long been a healer main, I don't pull for the tank. I don't as a DPS unless I'm in the zone and forget myself...but that's because I'm being an idiot rather than trying to do their job for them. If I want tanks to respect me as a healer, then I in turn need to respect them as tanks. But I play all roles, so I know what might annoy me as a tank, healer or DPS and try to avoid doing those things.

And when tanking, if somebody pulls for me, I'll maybe give them a couple of chances, but if I am in on it with the other party members (as I sometimes queue with others) I might let them keep their aggro, I don't if it's going to ruin it for the rest of the party as not fair on them. But it's a practical method of showing why the tank tends to be the one who pulls. You don't know your tank's capability or confidence, hence they tend to control the pace, because it'll be a pace they (and hopefully the healer) can both handle.

But it happened to me the other day, I found both the healer and 1 of the DPS was having trouble in a dungeon, we wiped twice to the first boss, even after I explained mechanics. Fine, maybe it's a learning curve, not gonna hold anything against anybody.

Second boss, I figure, maybe I should stop and explain the mechanics to them to help them out, we stop for a moment so that I can do this, half way through typing them out the aforementioned DPS (who kept dying to the first boss) seemingly got bored and just pulled. Me, the healer and other DPS stayed on our side of the threshold and let him keep it. Sadly though, we learned the hard way here that it will now pull you in after a certain time, but DPS died and as were now drawn in, we just took over.


But ultimately, communication is key.

[Halivel]

I normally go from wall to wall and adjust if it doesn't work, so I barely have such issues. There are some cases when I can prefer smaller pulls because I'm tired and not focused, though normally I would prefer avoid going into dungeon in such shape at all, but still.

Hovewer: you pull - you tank (unless that's accidental, which can happen quite frequently for, actually, healers and also casters/rangers). Wish to pull? Go as tank. That's it.

[3c-33]

This forum is full of entitled tanks with a superiority complex who regurgitate the same rhetoric they did 6 years ago with the "if they pull I let them die" garbage. You are not special for playing a tank and if all the other party members want to go fast, you look like an arrogant prick by refusing to play your role that is already incredibly easy. The tank doesn't decide what the group does, the entire group does. Digging in your heels and throwing a fit by refusing to pick up mobs is such a petty waste of time and energy and has potential to cause wipes all because you felt entitled to your "leadership" and decided you wanted to sabotage the group who is clearly confident enough to go bigger. I've healed a gladiator on ast in the qitana ravel before who mass pulled the entire thing because I said they could, it's really not difficult at all

I main tank and ive had some healers rescue me into groups before or people who pulled ahead and went with it because literally why should I care? I'm just here to play the game like everyone else and ill gladly change how I'm playing to accommodate someone else as long as they're not rude about it. those things are nonverbal communication and nothing more. To assume otherwise means you're too easily offended on your own high horse. If the healer overestimated what they could handle and a wipe happens, so what? It happens, get over it lmao, it's a videogame and mistakes and challenges are made to happen. If you just want everything to be easy perfect clears why are you even playing? You may as well just watch someone else play at that point.

And conversely if someone wants to go slower then I'll accomodate that as well, I'm easily a people pleaser and care more about other peoples enjoyment than my own. I still think there's some exceptions to this, like if you're doing mociannes hard with a tank at several level 80s already not on their first time, I'd find it ridiculous that you want to go slow when you don't even need a tank in there. I can understand going slower in some things but there comes a point where feeling the need to be pampered in already easy dungeons is just too much. On average, majority of runs are speedruns anyway, so...

[Penthea]

Yet several times I've heard tank or dps get mad and tell me to stop prepulling, even when they had ignored my request to pull more.

Request.

No one is obligated to fulfill your request.

I don't mind at all if tank wants to keep pulls small, but they should also not mind if I go pull mobs and bring them to the tank. They literally don't have to do anything except their aoe rotation, which they are doing anyway.

Clearly you do mind if they pull small packs given you end up pulling more yourself anyway and force the tank to deal with the result of a multi-pack pull.

Why is prepulling considered rude/bad in this case? Everyone is completely overgeared to the point they may solo the entire dungeon.

Because your actions are telling the tank "What you're doing isn't good enough for me. You didn't do the thing I asked so I'm going to force you to do it.".

If you are incapable of handling the monotony of single pack pulls I suggest finding a tank buddy to do dungeons with, instead of being a bit of a diva with pugs.

[Ammokkx]

It is not up to anyone other than the tank to decide how many mobs they want to tank. It is quite literally their role. If you do not like the pace at which the tank is moving, the only thing you should do is ask them if they please want to pull more. If they say no, do not start doing their job for them. Like others have said: If you want to act like the tank, be the tank.

Yes, all they have to do to save you is use their AoE. No, they are not obligated to do so. You pulled the mobs of your own volition, so they have the right to refuse to save you. If this tank is a complete stranger to you, you should not try to gimp their gameplay experience just because you'd like to do it a different way. If you cannot trust randoms, then get friends to run content with you. If you run it with randoms, then adhere to their wishes. End of story.

If you do not know the person, only expect the minimum out of their job. Not the maximum. At the same time, they should not go out of their way to mess you up either. Mutual respect is the basis of social interaction. Do not expect everything in return for nothing.

[SamRF]

I would at least attempt talking to the tank first. Tell the tank you're good with them pulling more, that you can keep them up easy. If they still refuse to pull more, and the dps ALSO want to do bigger pulls, and you can keep everyone up then I guess go for it. (If the dps also prefer smaller pulls and you're outvoted then I guess just deal with it.)

It's kinda rude however to just start pulling for the tank with no attempt to communicate first.

This. Always ask; never assume. It doesn’t matter if you feel that there will be no repercussions to pulling more than the tank. You may feel that you are only doing it maximizing efficiency, but when you take it upon yourself to do more than what your group consents to, then your actions come across as overbearing, overzealous, and rude

Why do I need consent from the group if I'm the healer and I don't risk a wipe at all and I'm keeping everyone alive? Tank also doesn't need to ask consent to pull more, sure it's their job, but there seems to be less hard feelings when tank overpulls and causes a wipe (not completely sure about that one actually). While I'm literally not risking anything and making the dungeon progress faster. Maybe you should change your mentality towards the game if you consider that rude?

You can also say I should change my mentality for not seeing it as rude, but then I'd say consider that what I'm doing is increasing efficiency, which is the whole point of the tank/healer/dps role conventions in the first place: to do do dungeons in most efficient manner. You could for example let dps take all enmity and let tank just dps, but that's not the convention because it wouldn't be efficient.

Thus I would say there's no point in abiding by the convention in a situation when it's obviously not the most efficient path forward. And for that reason it shouldn't be seen as rude imo.

[Halivel]

Ah. Right. Effiency. Effiency. Effiency. EFFIENCY. Every second is a cent, right.

[SamRF]

It is not up to anyone other than the tank to decide how many mobs they want to tank. It is quite literally their role. If you do not like the pace at which the tank is moving, the only thing you should do is ask them if they please want to pull more. If they say no, do not start doing their job for them. Like others have said: If you want to act like the tank, be the tank.

Yes, all they have to do to save you is use their AoE. No, they are not obligated to do so. You pulled the mobs of your own volition, so they have the right to refuse to save you. If this tank is a complete stranger to you, you should not try to gimp their gameplay experience just because you'd like to do it a different way. If you cannot trust randoms, then get friends to run content with you. If you run it with randoms, then adhere to their wishes. End of story.

If you do not know the person, only expect the minimum out of their job. Not the maximum. At the same time, they should not go out of their way to mess you up either. Mutual respect is the basis of social interaction. Do not expect everything in return for nothing.

Like I've said, in the situations I'm talking about it literally doesn't even matter if tank takes over the mobs or I keep tanking the mobs as healer. Damage is so negligible and there's no wipe risk, besides, tank would take enmity automatically if I bring mobs to them when they are doing their aoe rotation anyway. My only complaint is the fact that they get upset in chat.

[Yrahv]

Why do I need consent from the group if I'm the healer and I don't risk a wipe at all and I'm keeping everyone alive?

My answer to that question was given in the second part of my post.

Tank also doesn't need to ask consent to pull more, sure it's their job, but there seems to be less hard feelings when tank overpulls and causes a wipe (not completely sure about that one actually).

I do not agree with that at all. An overbearing tank who pulls wall to wall without bothering to ask if his healer can keep up is no better than an overbearing healer who takes it upon himself to pull more when the tank is more comfortable pulling less.

Efficiency is one thing. Common courtesy is another.

[Ammokkx]

Like I've said, in the situations I'm talking about it literally doesn't even matter if tank takes over the mobs or I keep tanking the mobs as healer. Damage is so negligible and there's no wipe risk, besides, tank would take enmity automatically if I bring mobs to them when they are doing their aoe rotation anyway. My only complaint is the fact that they get upset in chat.

No shit they get upset. Either you're doing something they didn't ask you to do, or you're doing something they asked you not to do. Both are just as shitty as one-another.

Efficiency is no excuse. Not everyone wants to be efficient. People play this game with different priorities, and if you go with randoms, you opt into having to respect those.