Prepulling mobs as healer

[Sebazy]

The idea of multiple pulls is to speed up the run but in reality it's the opposite in most situations.

Whilst I'd agree that there are a few occasions where wall to wall pulling either isn't viable or more efficient than single pulls, saying that it's slower in most situations is pretty far off the mark in my book. The only times I'd agree with you are the following:

Very low level dungeons, particularly with certain jobs getting their AoE later than others.

Several incompetent players in the party, an especially bad Tank or Healer can cause problems by themselves. One awful DPS doesn't really make much of a difference to me. Two can cause cool down issues on certain nastier pulls though.

Certain older dungeons that either have particularly lax gating or harsh iLvl caps that will frequently allow you to pull way more than is feasible to heal. Aurum Vale is probably the best example of this.

Uhm.. No?

You can complete a dungeon without a healer (sufficed you have a Paladin as your tank). You CANT complete a dungeon without a tank. (no matter the healer type)

It's very doable, but it's also very messy and inefficient.

[Nedkel]

I wont comment on 'you' but the 'other' players, in general, I'll disagree with.
The idea of multiple pulls is to speed up the run but in reality it's the opposite in most situations.
Healer Damage
While a regen might be enough to keep the group alive it does allow the healer to damage too. Considering they are 25% or the party that holy spam or what ever spell is used is fairly signifiant. And the short stun means no damage or abilities for the party to dodge. A damage increase, depending on what job is doing the AoE, more packs may not be optimal for them so they chip away at the packs rather than doing even damage to them - taking longer.
More dodging
There's also AoE dodging . Depending on what mobs there are there might be large amounts of AoE and adding a new pack would mean you spend more time dodging AoE than you can doing damage. Sure the healer might be able to heal through it but then they can't damage.
And those tanks - chain pulling
There's also the pre-pulls - wait by the barrier to pull faster. That's not making something faster. If you move at pack at 20% to move to the barrier you're making it hard for damage dealers to attack the pack so they have to stop while you take the pack for walkies - wasting buffs, cooldowns and procs. Less damage.
MMO players in general are good at the How - what buttons to press - but not why it's done. Speed pulls are one of those situations, where multiple pulls have disadvantages but because the why is not understood it's done all the time, often to the detriment of the group.

Its not the opposite its simple math.
If you have 2 groups with 8 mobs in it you are far better of pull all of them instead of 1.

DPS job could do twice or more damage as tank or healer, and because of that tanks and healer damage does not matter all that much. Them working harder have little to no impact on the speed, even if healer does half of the damage he would do with single pack you effectively double the damage done by DPS classes when pulling twice as much mobs making things go way faster thats it its simple math.
Fastest run in the world are always wall to wall pulls.

[spf1200]

If I'm tanking and a healer does this ( I pull wall to all most of the time) I let them die. If your tank isn't doing large pulls then there is a reason for it. Maybe they aren't comfortable doing so or maybe there is something else districting them so the can't go all out.

[SamRF]

If I'm tanking and a healer does this ( I pull wall to all most of the time) I let them die. If your tank isn't doing large pulls then there is a reason for it. Maybe they aren't comfortable doing so or maybe there is something else districting them so the can't go all out.

You don't have to do anything besides your aoe if I bring the mobs to you. I get if you don't want to adjust your gameplay because a healer prepulls, but don't get upset when they do prepull and nobody dies (not saying you are like this, just what happens in the cases I prepull). Also I'm talking about a different situation than what you're talking about cause the healer ends up dying in your case, which wouldn't happen in the cases I prepull (bc overgear).

[Malmstrom]

What if they are new? What if they aren't as geared as you think? What if they aren't confident in their abilities? What if they are playing with one hand? What if...

There's a myriad number of reasons why someone might be pulling one group at a time.

You aren't the tank.

Don't pull.

OR

Be the tank.

Pull everything you want.

[SamRF]

What if they are new? What if they aren't as geared as you think? What if they aren't confident in their abilities? What if they are playing with one hand? What if...

There's a myriad number of reasons why someone might be pulling one group at a time.

You aren't the tank.

Don't pull.

OR

Be the tank.

Pull everything you want.

That's fine if they're new. Why would it matter if I prepull and bring mobs to the tank? They don't have to adjust their gameplay in any way. I'm not judging them, just don't get it when they end up getting upset.

[MistakeNot]

That's fine if they're new. Why would it matter if I prepull and bring mobs to the tank? They don't have to adjust their gameplay in any way. I'm not judging them, just don't get it when they end up getting upset.

More mobs to keep track of. More AOEs to dodge. Big crowd of mobs preventing you from seeing what exactly is happening. Oh, yes, it matters.

[EaMett]

You should always check with your tank. The tank could be relatively new and uncomfortable with big pulls. If it's the case, they should dictate the pace. Period.

Barring this, the healer should dictate the pace yes. This doesn't mean the healer should pre-pull though.

There are some edge cases where the tank is experienced enough but has it in their mind that they just want to small pull because "they aren't in a rush", "are busy with something else" etc.. This is super super rare but when it happens your options are: kick tank (although I would never recommend kicking someone who isn't actively griefing), drop instance and take the penalty, or potentially pull mobs to him.
With that said, even though your tank should be doing his/her aoe rotation and as a healer pulling mobs to them is just you keeping yourself and the tank alive in the process and there should be relatively little harm in doing so. This is barely any faster than doing small pulls so just drop instance and take the 30mn penalty. Small pull dungeons usually take 30mn anyways so you'll only be losing about 15mn to redo the dungeon with large pulls. And this is something that happens so infrequently that it's not a big loss overall.

So what I'm saying is, either move to your tank's pace or drop instance and eat the penalty.

That's fine if they're new. Why would it matter if I prepull and bring mobs to the tank? They don't have to adjust their gameplay in any way. I'm not judging them, just don't get it when they end up getting upset.

It can be stressful when you're already tunnel visioning. Not to mention DPS potentially picking up adds. If the tank is new move to their pace or leave instance and let another healer fill in.

[Mixt]

Several times when the healer has run ahead and pulled extra it has resulted in a wipe.

Then the healer proceeded to blame me when HE was the one who grabbed extra mobs and was unable to keep up with the resulting incoming damage.

No, i do not in fact have infinite cooldowns, yes i did use the cooldowns i do have, telling me to "Use your cooldowns" when i was already doing just that is silly, stop it.
"But it's impossible to wipe when the tank uses cooldowns!" Oh for the love of-*Has my skull caved in by Elite Trash Mobs spamming mini-tankbusters*

See also, last pull in The Burn, the pull right before the second boss in The Twinning, The entire section between the first and second boss of Ala Mhigo, and a few other examples, especially so when those dungeons were new and massive overgearing was not yet a thing. And the healer decides "IMMA PULL EVERYTHING!"
Even worse when the DPS are also single-targeting everything, because throw rocket fuel on the fire why don't you?

[SamRF]

Several times when the healer has run ahead and pulled extra it has resulted in a wipe.

Then the healer proceeded to blame me when HE was the one who grabbed extra mobs and was unable to keep up with the resulting incoming damage.

No, i do not in fact have infinite cooldowns, yes i did use the cooldowns i do have, telling me to "Use your cooldowns" when i was already doing just that is silly, stop it.
"But it's impossible to wipe when the tank uses cooldowns!" Oh for the love of-*Has my skull caved in by Elite Trash Mobs spamming mini-tankbusters*

See also, last pull in The Burn, the pull right before the second boss in The Twinning, The entire section between the first and second boss of Ala Mhigo, and a few other examples, especially so when those dungeons were new and massive overgearing was not yet a thing. And the healer decides "IMMA PULL EVERYTHING!"
Even worse when the DPS are also single-targeting everything, because throw rocket fuel on the fire why don't you?

Definitely agree healer shouldn't pull in those cases, but what I'm talking about is obviously a different situation (no wipe risk).