Viera head gear -_-

[Sheriyana]

Took the words right out of my mouth. I was going to post something like this, but kept going AFK or doing something in-game. Totally agree - except to SE, at least if I am remembering this correctly, Viera/hrothgar ARE finished.

Yeah, of course they don't see them as unfinished, that would mean they're admitting fault and that's bad PR.

[SturmChurro]

Yeah, of course they don't see them as unfinished, that would mean they're admitting fault and that's bad PR.

Well, not just that, but I truly believe that they think these are finished half races, and are content in them just being "limited". Which means, they have no urgency in "completing" something that is supposed to be "limited" in the first place.

[Sheriyana]

Well, not just that, but I truly believe that they think these are finished half races, and are content in them just being "limited". Which means, they have no urgency in "completing" something that is supposed to be "limited" in the first place.

You're right on that too, yeah. I was pretty upset initially about the gender locking in this way too, they made such a point of removing all the gender locked races when moving from 1.0 to 2.0 but now they're suddenly fine with releasing gender locked races again, like why would they be okay with going backwards. They had been doing well with being more inclusive but then they just throw it all away.

[Yencat]

I don't think both of you understand. Let me re-quote again. It doesn't matter if plans were made public. If Head Management says "No don't do this because it costs more resources and time" and Yoshi does it anyway because fans wanted it it doesn't mean that they "Were meant to be added". Time and resources. That's the main problem when creating new playable races. They could have easily made a non-playable beast race to replace Viera and Hrothgar in the story and it would save them time and resources and not release what is out now. And Yoshi also specifically stated that the problem with creating new playable races was, oh let me say it again, Time and Resources. And he said this like a while back in previous letters and was reluctant to add another playable race yet 2.

But when they do try to add stuff for fans and please you guys, You still complain regardless no matter what they do. No patience.

You can't be serious with this. Do you think Yoshida just goes rogue like some sort of champion for the people adding stuff without approval? I'm sure he has some leeway and sway in the company, but when the bean counters and higher ups say no they do mean no and it doesn't happen.

If they don't plan to fully support new races or it's too difficult; stop adding them! But now they've added them so is it really such a grave sin people are critical of the choices they made? I'm sure Hrothgar players are beyond grateful paying 7 euros everytime they want to change their hair, how dare they. So impatient.

Nobody is calling for pitchforks, tar and feathers so why not let people complain and commiserate on the Official Forums where the feedback might actually reach them?

[Sheriyana]

You can't be serious with this. Do you think Yoshida just goes rogue like some sort of champion for the people adding stuff without approval? I'm sure he has some leeway and sway in the company, but when the bean counters and higher ups say no they do mean no and it doesn't happen.

If they don't plan to fully support new races or it's too difficult; stop adding them! But now they've added them so is it really such a grave sin people are critical of the choices they made? I'm sure Hrothgar players are beyond grateful paying 7 euros everytime they want to change their hair, how dare they. So impatient.

Nobody is calling for pitchforks, tar and feathers so why not let people complain and commiserate on the Official Forums where the feedback might actually reach them?

Well said! Sure you can try to understand why they did what they did but that doesn't mean you can't criticize their choices.

Personally I think they should have focused on making Viera a fully complete race and left Hrothgar for 6.0. They were setting up for Viera in the Return to Ivalice series, Hrothgar just came out of nowhere. They could have focused on setting up for Hrothgar in the 5.X series to give them a proper introduction as well. No one could have been disappointed if Hrothgar hadn't released either since there was no reason to expect them. Also it really shows that Hrothgar came out of nowhere, the lack of customization options is pretty apparent... I'm not even against Hrothgar, I think people would have been much happier getting a full race with no gender locks and more customization options over whatever this sad excuse of a playable race we were given.

[SturmChurro]

You're right on that too, yeah. I was pretty upset initially about the gender locking in this way too, they made such a point of removing all the gender locked races when moving from 1.0 to 2.0 but now they're suddenly fine with releasing gender locked races again, like why would they be okay with going backwards. They had been doing well with being more inclusive but then they just throw it all away.

Well, Yoshida I think said it himself. I wish I could find the quote, I am paraphrasing. This was going to be their "last chance" to add any other races, so they wanted to add a beast race since players had been wanting one, and they included viera as well since it was a fan favorite. They have no plans currently, last I read, for adding male viera/female hrothgar, because in adding these it would significantly slow their patch schedule.

[Sheriyana]

Well, Yoshida I think said it himself. I wish I could find the quote, I am paraphrasing. This was going to be their "last chance" to add any other races, so they wanted to add a beast race since players had been wanting one, and they included viera as well since it was a fan favorite. They have no plans currently, last I read, for adding male viera/female hrothgar, because in adding these it would significantly slow their patch schedule.

I remember hearing something along those lines too. I just wish they could have done Viera and Hrothgar justice, it's not really a great way to end making new playable races with throwing out two quarter finished races. I mean I guess it's still better that we got them over not getting anything at all but it's still disappointing even so. I wish they'd show us that they're working on expanding them, now it really does feel like they're fine leaving them as is. Just be happy you get to eat the scraps, you're all crazy expecting a full meal. I guess it's more important to add more fishing content or whatever. And before someone points it out, yes, I know it's most likely not the same people working on making fisher content that would be working on a playable race.

[reivaxe]

So we should just be thankful whenever they release unfinished content? I think you misunderstand something about the consumer-company relationship. It's not the customer's job to be understanding, make excuses for the company and hope for the product to be finished some time in their life. It's up to the company to deliver a satisfying and finished product. Of course it reflects badly on them if they release unfinished features, people are allowed to be disappointed, we're paying for this. It's their job to keep the customer satisfied. Stop being a corporate apologist, they're not paying you anything to make excuses for them.

This sounds like non-sense.
"Unfinished"? I what way? What you call "unfinished", be it genders or hair or head gear, is literally a design choice that resulted in a compromise to stay true to their vision for these races. They never said that all head gear or hairs would ever work for Viera.

Sure, it's not your job to be a corporate shill and it's perfectly fine to be disappointed with something and express that but when you complain about something it adds more weight to your words when you take the time to actually understand what you're whining about.

Like, from CatBois to highlander Women to Femroe to Draggos we know that they are perfectly able to ADD new player character models that wear all head gear and have hair styles work. What's the difference here? Welp, not only is every new character model harder to make than the last because of compounding work loads (meaning that they do have a max number of character models they can support with the time and resources on hand and the game has way more gear and emotes than it did in ARR) but now, for the first time ever, they have models that break the systems the game has been using from the start from when it was a dumpster-fire of a game. At no point in most of this game's history did they have to consider making all hair or hats or helms work for heads like these.
So yeah ... they coulda given them the miqo'te head with longer miqo'te ears and made the Hrothgar have highlander faces with the miqo'te head. Everything would fit like it does the miqo'te. But they didn't do that ... cause what would be the point of just making tall tail-less super model miqo'te and big beefy highlander miqo'te?
They did something unique and it worked out, but unique comes at a price. The price this time was hats and helms and hair styles.

Topics like these are just sad to me. I get why people want more, and it's fine to be disappointed. But I get why these things are not gonna happen from a design standpoint and ... when you can't see that it can leave you just yelling at clouds and pushing blame to other things. So it sounds bad but if not having hats or helms or XYZ hairs is that bad for someone I would recommend they race change. They don't have a head gear system that would allow for it and they're not gonna suddenly make it nor are they going to stop making hats and helms for the races that can wear them just to be "fair".

[Yencat]

This sounds like non-sense.
"Unfinished"? I what way? What you call "unfinished", be it genders or hair or head gear, is literally a design choice that resulted in a compromise to stay true to their vision for these races. They never said that all head gear or hairs would ever work for Viera.

Sure, it's not your job to be a corporate shill and it's perfectly fine to be disappointed with something and express that but when you complain about something it adds more weight to your words when you take the time to actually understand what you're whining about.

Like, from CatBois to highlander Women to Femroe to Draggos we know that they are perfectly able to ADD new player character models that wear all head gear and have hair styles work. What's the difference here? Welp, not only is every new character model harder to make than the last because of compounding work loads (meaning that they do have a max number of character models they can support with the time and resources on hand and the game has way more gear and emotes than it did in ARR) but now, for the first time ever, they have models that break the systems the game has been using from the start from when it was a dumpster-fire of a game. At no point in most of this game's history did they have to consider making all hair or hats or helms work for heads like these.
So yeah ... they coulda given them the miqo'te head with longer miqo'te ears and made the Hrothgar have highlander faces with the miqo'te head. Everything would fit like it does the miqo'te. But they didn't do that ... cause what would be the point of just making tall tail-less super model miqo'te and big beefy highlander miqo'te?
They did something unique and it worked out, but unique comes at a price. The price this time was hats and helms and hair styles.

Topics like these are just sad to me. I get why people want more, and it's fine to be disappointed. But I get why these things are not gonna happen from a design standpoint and ... when you can't see that it can leave you just yelling at clouds and pushing blame to other things. So it sounds bad but if not having hats or helms or XYZ hairs is that bad for someone I would recommend they race change. They don't have a head gear system that would allow for it and they're not gonna suddenly make it nor are they going to stop making hats and helms for the races that can wear them just to be "fair".

Viera issues aside, if you put out a race that has to pay real money to use a basic in game function like changing your hairstyle you deserve every last bit of flak you get for it. No matter how "unique" you made that race or even having a full understanding of the technical limitations of the character creator, it's a ridiculous thing to do. Had they done this during Heavensward with the Au Ra they would have been eviscerated by the playerbase and gaming media.

[TheMightyMollusk]

I still suspect they won't say anything until they're building up to 6.0, since it would be a major hype point. The precedent with adding new player models is there.

-Yugiri wasn't unmasked until 2.55, leading to Au Ra in Heavensward. (She was around earlier, but if you watch carefully, she uses a Miqo'te model with custom mods, since the Au Ra weren't finished yet.)
-Fran didn't show up until 4.5 for Orbonne Monastery, leading to Viera.

My expectation is that the Bozja/Save the Queen quests starting in 5.2 will eventually lead to us, well, saving the queen in 5.5-ish, leading to female Hrothgar. (And following the trend of previewing the female player model first, for that matter.)

And they won't finish one race without finishing the other. So rather than dripping out fixes here and there, they'll do it all at once, because one big rework will generate more hype than a bunch of smaller fixes.