5.1 NIN slowed down and uninteresting

[Wiccan692015]

i disagree with your comment here Ninjas still have a identity and a good one too, mudras have different uses for the trick attack combo the timer syncs up with ten chi jin ability, so i combo up ten chi jin, then trick attack, then mug, then dream within a dream, then assasinate, does a incredible amount of damage, dont forget that ninjas are also one of the only classes to get a natural flip jump with their weapons pulled out which really helps to avoid aoes, in betewwn the cooldown on that combo i use different comos for different situations whether they are AOE or single target, ninjas have identities just got to know what to use and when..

[Solowing]

i disagree with your comment here Ninjas still have a identity and a good one too, mudras have different uses for the trick attack combo the timer syncs up with ten chi jin ability, so i combo up ten chi jin, then trick attack, then mug, then dream within a dream, then assasinate, does a incredible amount of damage, dont forget that ninjas are also one of the only classes to get a natural flip jump with their weapons pulled out which really helps to avoid aoes, in betewwn the cooldown on that combo i use different comos for different situations whether they are AOE or single target, ninjas have identities just got to know what to use and when..

Thats the problem, everything lines up to Trick Attack currently, where prior to the rework, you got to use your abilities in the mid-fight and have re-align everything into the next Trick Attack, which was far more engaging!

mudras have different uses for the trick attack combo the timer syncs up with ten chi jin ability, so i combo up ten chi jin, then trick attack, then mug, then dream within a dream, then assasinate, does a incredible amount of damage,



Why not do, Suiton>Spinning Edge>Gust Slash>Mug>Trick Attack>Bunshin>Aeolian Edge>Dream within a Dream>Spinning Edge>Assassinate>Gust Slash>Aeolian Edge>Bhavacakra >Ten-chi-Jin>Meisui>Bhavacakra>Kassatsu>Hyosho Ranryu?

You're throwing any oGCD into your Trick Attack without thought...Thats the crux of my problem, the class has been slowed down, had its complexity reduced, and its weaving aspect with ninjutsu removed. But looking how you use your abilities and how i use mine, you dont know what to do with it, and these changes are more appeasing to you. I find these changes annoying because it REDUCED complexity

[Lucy_Pyre]

Thats the problem, everything lines up to Trick Attack currently, where prior to the rework, you got to use your abilities in the mid-fight and have re-align everything into the next Trick Attack, which was far more engaging!

mudras have different uses for the trick attack combo the timer syncs up with ten chi jin ability, so i combo up ten chi jin, then trick attack, then mug, then dream within a dream, then assasinate, does a incredible amount of damage,



Why not do, Suiton>Spinning Edge>Gust Slash>Mug>Trick Attack>Bunshin>Aeolian Edge>Dream within a Dream>Spinning Edge>Assassinate>Gust Slash>Aeolian Edge>Bhavacakra >Ten-chi-Jin>Meisui>Bhavacakra>Kassatsu>Hyosho Ranryu?

You're throwing any oGCD into your Trick Attack without thought...Thats the crux of my problem, the class has been slowed down, had its complexity reduced, and its weaving aspect with ninjutsu removed. But looking how you use your abilities and how i use mine, you dont know what to do with it, and these changes are more appeasing to you. I find these changes annoying because it REDUCED complexity

Looking at your combo, you don't seem to know what you're doing either and are also throwing things into Trick without any thought applied to it. Where's your Shadow Fang? Where are your Raiton's? Not only are your weaves done at poor and/or outright bad times, clipping more GCDs than is necessary, you're outright missing a very significant amount of DPS from your Trick window because you're missing not only arguably your most important GCD (Shadow Fang) but Raiton casts as well.

[Shurrikhan]

Looking at your combo, you don't seem to know what you're doing either and are also throwing things into Trick without any thought applied to it. Where's your Shadow Fang? Where are your Raiton's? Not only are your weaves done at poor and/or outright bad times, clipping more GCDs than is necessary, you're outright missing a very significant amount of DPS from your Trick window because you're missing not only arguably your most important GCD (Shadow Fang) but Raiton casts as well.

Yes, every TA should eat at least a Shadowfang, an Aeolian Edge, two BahaBlasts, and an average of 3.5 Ninjutsu, be they from TCJ or Kassatsu charges alone. That the already highly constrained burst period was already relatively inflexible -- since it was, after all, the capstone around which all else flexed -- does not make the rest any less reduced in complexity. Combo complexity has been increasingly gutted since SB's launch; ShB just took the knife to it a major patch later than expected.

[ForteNightshade]

Complexity was removed, we had the different timed cds had to mix things up and try to line abilities up for the next trick attack, that is no longer a thing, everything lines up to trick attack now. Ninjutsu also became relegated to mainly Trick attack usage, if Trick attack isn't up, why use ninjutsu? Shuriken prior to the rework got used because it was a quick ninjutsu before jumping back into my combos, now? Why use it? It does less damage then Raiton why not use Raiton? Because ill just wait for Trick Attack to use it since it benefits from trick attacks. Hell Shuriken shouldn't exist anymore because it doesn't have use anymore!

Raiton has always been better. The only reason you used Fuma in Stormblood was due to the passive trait Ninja had and the clipping caused the difference to mis-align things enough Fuma came out slightly ahead unless you had like 10 ping. With the buff to Raiton in Shadowbringers, you simply dealt with the clipping. Fuma died before this rework even happened. Furthermore, you have to use mudras outside Trick otherwise you'll overcap on charges.

I also don't see how everything lining up properly makes the job worse. Having to fix alignment issues isn't engaging, it's annoying, especially when you're trying to coordinate with other players whose buffs may not work in your windows. The end result is you do something less optimal because it benefits everyone else.

[Solowing]

Raiton has always been better. The only reason you used Fuma in Stormblood was due to the passive trait Ninja had and the clipping caused the difference to mis-align things enough Fuma came out slightly ahead unless you had like 10 ping. With the buff to Raiton in Shadowbringers, you simply dealt with the clipping. Fuma died before this rework even happened. Furthermore, you have to use mudras outside Trick otherwise you'll overcap on charges.

I also don't see how everything lining up properly makes the job worse. Having to fix alignment issues isn't engaging, it's annoying, especially when you're trying to coordinate with other players whose buffs may not work in your windows. The end result is you do something less optimal because it benefits everyone else.

So not having to align my abilities is fun? The class is far less interesting, because theirs less to do, less to think about and less to consider, and if it frustrated you, you have the Dancer job, rather then the ninja being turned into a DNC 2.0

[Solowing]

Looking at your combo, you don't seem to know what you're doing either and are also throwing things into Trick without any thought applied to it. Where's your Shadow Fang? Where are your Raiton's? Not only are your weaves done at poor and/or outright bad times, clipping more GCDs than is necessary, you're outright missing a very significant amount of DPS from your Trick window because you're missing not only arguably your most important GCD (Shadow Fang) but Raiton casts as well.

Im Sorry for leaving that out, add Shadownfang after Suiton, there ya go! I rather spend as much time weaving in as many abilities as i can into that burst window from >Kassatsu>ten-chi-jin> you can try to cast another Raiton but its likely to fall outside of the Trick Attack window since it takes nearly 2 seconds to add a 2nd Raiton


Also notice (GCD) (Ogcd) (GCD) (oGCD) pattern, There is always damage going out during that window, every GCD casted during the burst window has a follow up oGCD which is weaved back into a GCD and then back into a oGCD, not forgetting the clone which doubles up on the Ninki generation leading up to a second Bavakara at or near the tail end of the burst. i rather shoot for a second Bavakara then potentially squeeze in one more GCD then most likely miss the window queueing up a nearly 2 second cast move

[ForteNightshade]

So not having to align my abilities is fun? The class is far less interesting, because theirs less to do, less to think about and less to consider, and if it frustrated you, you have the Dancer job, rather then the ninja being turned into a DNC 2.0

It's certainly better for optimizing the job. So, yes. I do like that because I actually like these changes means I should just have played something else. While it hasn't been my main, I've played Ninja regularly for years now. Prior to 5.0, it was fine but Shadowbringers Ninja was a complete mess of a job. I'd rather have mudras that are partly similar to Dancer steps than ones that make me constantly clip.

I'll agree, Shadowfang is boring now but that's about it.

[Lucy_Pyre]

-snip-

Your entire opener is still a complete mess and, frankly, bad. Applying Shadow Fang so early is absolutely awful as not only is it missing out on potency from your own Trick Attack, but from the rest of the party's raid buffs as well. The next issue that arises is that immediately you double weave Trick and Bunshin at the same time, which is causing unnecessary clipping from the unnecessary double weave. Next up you activate Kassatsu DURING Trick, rather than priming it prior to entering Trick, which adds an additional unnecessary weave to your Trick window. Ranryu is applied far too late as well, as putting it at the end of your opening Trick like that risks it hitting after some raid buffs have fallen off and thus losing potency. Finally, you're using too many weaponskills in Trick. You should only be using 3 weaponskills during your opening trick, you have 4 listed, and not even the correct ones at that.

This is what you *should* be doing, and this is under the assumption that you aren't using a Dex pot. If you are simply weave Kassatsu immediately after Suiton instead.

Suiton -> Spinning Edge -> Kassatsu -> Gust Slash -> Mug -> Aeolian Edge -> Bunshin -> Spinning Edge -> Trick Attack -> Dream Within A Dream -> Shadow Fang -> Assassinate -> Hyosho Ranryu -> Raiton -> Ten Chi Jin (Suiton combo) -> Mesui -> Gust Slash -> Bhavacakra -> Aeolian Edge -> Bhavacakra (Trick ends here) -> Raiton -> Spinning Edge (final Bunshin charge).

Not only does this align as much of your heavy hitting burst as possible with the maximum amount of raid buffs, but it sets you up for your following Trick windows. By using the final Raiton immediately after Trick ends (Aeolian Edge + Bhava + Bunshin = 980 pot VS Raiton's 800, thus getting it in Trick is superior) you have primed your mudras for the rest of your rotation, not touching them again until you have stored one charge and using Suiton just before you cap on your second charge, and using Kassatsu on cooldown which will cause you to prime it a few seconds before going into your next Trick.

[Solowing]

Your entire opener is still a complete mess and, frankly, bad. Applying Shadow Fang so early is absolutely awful as not only is it missing out on potency from your own Trick Attack, but from the rest of the party's raid buffs as well. The next issue that arises is that immediately you double weave Trick and Bunshin at the same time, which is causing unnecessary clipping from the unnecessary double weave. Next up you activate Kassatsu DURING Trick, rather than priming it prior to entering Trick, which adds an additional unnecessary weave to your Trick window. Ranryu is applied far too late as well, as putting it at the end of your opening Trick like that risks it hitting after some raid buffs have fallen off and thus losing potency. Finally, you're using too many weaponskills in Trick. You should only be using 3 weaponskills during your opening trick, you have 4 listed, and not even the correct ones at that.

This is what you *should* be doing, and this is under the assumption that you aren't using a Dex pot. If you are simply weave Kassatsu immediately after Suiton instead.

Suiton -> Spinning Edge -> Kassatsu -> Gust Slash -> Mug -> Aeolian Edge -> Bunshin -> Spinning Edge -> Trick Attack -> Dream Within A Dream -> Shadow Fang -> Assassinate -> Hyosho Ranryu -> Raiton -> Ten Chi Jin (Suiton combo) -> Mesui -> Gust Slash -> Bhavacakra -> Aeolian Edge -> Bhavacakra (Trick ends here) -> Raiton -> Spinning Edge (final Bunshin charge).

Not only does this align as much of your heavy hitting burst as possible with the maximum amount of raid buffs, but it sets you up for your following Trick windows. By using the final Raiton immediately after Trick ends (Aeolian Edge + Bhava + Bunshin = 980 pot VS Raiton's 800, thus getting it in Trick is superior) you have primed your mudras for the rest of your rotation, not touching them again until you have stored one charge and using Suiton just before you cap on your second charge, and using Kassatsu on cool-down which will cause you to prime it a few seconds before going into your next Trick.

Ill still do what ive been doing, but my takeaway from this is adding queuing up Kassatsu after after Suiton for my choice of rotation, as well as adding in ShadowFang post Bunshin(its double clipping, but it doesn't bother me because i dont mind it). But again, i rather have weaving as a playstyle back rather then it be restricted moreso to a burst window