Mediocrity should NOT be the standard for players in any content.

[Penthea]

I do the bare minimum all the time.
Getting grey parses don't matter if I can clear with it.

I'm fine with this mentality in normal mode. A team full of grey parses can do that content just fine. It won't be super fast, but it can get done without too much trouble provided the players aren't reckless and aren't ludicrously terrible. I'm easy going in normal mode. It's enough for me to clear stuff without difficulty or drama.

I'm not fine with it in ex/savage. If you are parsing grey in those environments you're actually not really clearing the content. Other players are carrying you and clearing it for you. Carrying happens in normal mode too but the burden of doing so in ex/savage is usually significantly higher. It's not fair to put players in this position.

[Mahoukenshi]

i for one can understand that not everyone can be the very best, no one every was, and my standards of groups is almost as low as it can get, but what was listed above is just absolutely unacceptable. All i ask for, literally is:

Tanks: take aggro and tank everything
Dps: Kill everyAll the things tank grabs
Heals: heal (yes, i'm one person who doesn't care if healer does dps, it's their choice IMO"
and EVERYONE make ATLEAST an ATTEMPT to dodge AoEs, don't have to be perfect, don't have to get out of every single on, Heck, Make an attempt, and i'm glad, i'm golden, you tried, good job! BUT they didn't even get that, and it's seriously bare minimum requirement, and that's saaaaaaad man.

As a "bad" player, I will wholeheartly agree with this. You can expect this from me but, for example, not to memorize every dungeon, trial and their mechanics. It works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. Nor will I attempt to memorize "long@ss" (yes, exaggerated) job rotations. I did actually look them up and skim through some Balance job guides but once I reach the rotation section I "nope" out as just reading is makes me figuratively fall asleep and bored. It's like learning for an entirely theoretical exam.
However, in exchange, I can promise you without a doubt that you will never see me in content that requires perfect choreographic memory and a (near) perfect rotation. Even I have that much courtesy and common sense.

[Valic]

I do the bare minimum all the time.
Getting grey parses don't matter if I can clear with it.

Parses don't mean garbage in common content. No one's gonna care what percentile of what population is doing what damage... What I care about, is if a challenge is present. Doing mechanics to ensure the party doesn't die or that if there is a damage check, we pass it. Parse or not, idc, there needs to be a fine line in what accomplishes/wins for our casual content. People should not be encouraged to do bare minimum, they should be encouraged to "try".

The person you replied to on this part is miles ahead of you as a player, FYI. Like, they're significantly better then you. You missed the meme, my dude.

In regards to the general thread:

Players that want to improve are already doing so. Those that don't want to sink the time into improving in FFXIV will not. Both ways are fine.

At the end of the day, the only gameplay experience that matters is one's own. I've played with a ton of people that play poorly. Wanna know how many I remember to this day? None. Ok, one. But I still don't remember their name or anything super specific, but still.

If someone wants to not AoE or just press a single button, so be it. Maybe they'll learn one day, or maybe they won't. Either way, there is a good chance you won't see them again and they likely had fun seeing a "good" player play with them.

A few bad experiences isn't worth a livejournal post, even with a clearly jaded mindset being considered.

Not even on the radar of what I'm talking about. GG to you too, ironic or not, that mindset doesn't belong here any longer. What are you even going off of? Logs? Why is that the defining line of how you judge people lol. There is no meme, other than that you're one of the "elitists" people seem to talk about and think I am acting in this thread.

And no, the latter is not fine. Gameplay should rise in difficulty, not lower. Lest you have an unsatisfying experience because fights require less than bare minimum now. I'm not personally keen to just accepting that type of attitude and would prefer to see this game not settle on that mindset. I repeat, a player should not be rewarded for not trying. See my "k, ur dumb" paragraph as for opinions on this matter go.

I'm fine with this mentality in normal mode. A team full of grey parses can do that content just fine. It won't be super fast, but it can get done without too much trouble provided the players aren't reckless and aren't ludicrously terrible. I'm easy going in normal mode. It's enough for me to clear stuff without difficulty or drama.

I'm not fine with it in ex/savage. If you are parsing grey in those environments you're actually not really clearing the content. Other players are carrying you and clearing it for you. Carrying happens in normal mode too but the burden of doing so in ex/savage is usually significantly higher. It's not fair to put players in this position.

Parse or not in normal mode content, the fact that "it can get done without much effort" is a large issue and presents itself as okay to not try. I feel that shouldn't be average.

[Kleeya]

I'm not fine with it in ex/savage. If you are parsing grey in those environments you're actually not really clearing the content. Other players are carrying you and clearing it for you. Carrying happens in normal mode too but the burden of doing so in ex/savage is usually significantly higher. It's not fair to put players in this position.

That's false. You can be grey and not being carried, doing what is expected of you. Because the pretty colors on fflogs are percentage based theyre will always be grey people, no matter how skilled the community as become. If everyone without exception become super good at the game, and deal a bare minimum of 15k dps while the the best ones does 17k, are you really gonna say "booooo boooo how can you deal only 15k ? Are you only auto attacking ? Please go learn your rotation and what a 1-2-3 combo is !" ?

There is a difference between a grey parser who do know his rotation, is doing mechanics correctly, but can not have a high ranking because he has not the best stuff available on this job yet, and a grey parser who only spam jolt 2 as a red mage. And i am not even talking of cases where you get low parses because the healers keep dying or dpsing too much, getting other players killed in the process, or the other team members fleeing you and letting you die when you get a stack marker.

Dont look only at the pretty colors, after all one of the argument in favor of fflogs is supposed to be "but people dont look only at that ! They are analyzing extensively what did happen in a fight before judging you !".

[Valic]

That's false. You can be grey and not being carried, doing what is expected of you. Because the pretty colors on fflogs are percentage based theyre will always be grey people, no matter how skilled the community as become. If everyone without exception become super good at the game, and deal a bare minimum of 15k dps while the the best ones does 17k, are you really gonna say "booooo boooo how can you deal only 15k ? Are you only auto attacking ? Please go learn your rotation and what a 1-2-3 combo is !" ?

There is a difference between a grey parser who do know his rotation, is doing mechanics correctly, but can not have a high ranking because he has not the best stuff available on this job yet, and a grey parser who only spam jolt 2 as a red mage. And i am not even talking of cases where you get low parses because the healers keep dying or dpsing too much, getting other players killed in the process, or the other team members fleeing you and letting you die when you get a stack marker.

Dont look only at the pretty colors, after all one of the argument in favor of fflogs is supposed to be "but people dont look only at that ! They are analyzing extensively what did happen in a fight before judging you !".

THIS.

Parse should also not be the identifier for who does what well. There's also the fact that not everyone who has a parse, are people who actively parse. There's plenty of people out there that may be doing better than most and hey, no one will ever know \o/

[KageTokage]

I really do think they could come up with a system that rewards players for performing well, but without telling anyone but themselves.

IE, they could get a tomestone/gil bonus after a roulette if they didn't take damage from specific mechanics (Namely, stuff that it is entirely on the individual to avoid and not stuff that can hit you because of another player being dumb), or if they did a certain total amount of damage to the bosses. They could take it further by having achievements for performing well in a certain number of instances.

[shao32]

This game needs harder dungeons, harder raids and extremes and most importantly more complexity on the jobs specially on tanks and healers, the game need to stop being dumpend down bcs some ppl don't know how to 2+2 and want to be carried by doing the bare minimum or less and if they can't do something they will get better which has never been something difficult to archive even on HW.

[Valic]

I really do think they could come up with a system that rewards players for performing well, but without telling anyone but themselves.

IE, they could get a tomestone/gil bonus after a roulette if they didn't take damage from specific mechanics (Namely, stuff that it is entirely on the individual to avoid and not stuff that can hit you because of another player being dumb), or if they did a certain total amount of damage to the bosses. They could take it further by having achievements for performing well in a certain number of instances.

Imagine if that meme about your loot RNG was real, the better you do, the better your loot roll could be lol. I agree though, there should be steps taken to encourage self improvement.

This game needs hardest dungeons, hardest raids and extremes and most importantly more complexity on the jobs specially on tanks and healers, the game need to stop being dumpend down bcs some ppl don't know how to 2+2 and want to be carried by doing the care minimum or less and if they can't do something they will get better which has never been something difficult to archive even on HW.

Harder* I'd say. Not hardest. Your post's grammar is janky but I'm pretty sure you're saying the same thing I am.

[xxvaynxx]

THIS.

Parse should also not be the identifier for who does what well. There's also the fact that not everyone who has a parse, are people who actively parse. There's plenty of people out there that may be doing better than most and hey, no one will ever know \o/

So your problem is people being mediocre but you're ok with people getting grey parses?
Got it.

I'll keep doing the bare minimum at my job!

[shao32]

Harder* I'd say. Not hardest. Your post's grammar is janky but I'm pretty sure you're saying the same thing I am.

yep, my apologize, phone sometimes is a bit problematic ^^