Mediocrity should NOT be the standard for players in any content.

[xxvaynxx]

stuff

I do the bare minimum all the time.
Getting grey parses don't matter if I can clear with it.

[Penthea]

I do the bare minimum all the time.
Getting grey parses don't matter if I can clear with it.

I'm fine with this mentality in normal mode. A team full of grey parses can do that content just fine. It won't be super fast, but it can get done without too much trouble provided the players aren't reckless and aren't ludicrously terrible. I'm easy going in normal mode. It's enough for me to clear stuff without difficulty or drama.

I'm not fine with it in ex/savage. If you are parsing grey in those environments you're actually not really clearing the content. Other players are carrying you and clearing it for you. Carrying happens in normal mode too but the burden of doing so in ex/savage is usually significantly higher. It's not fair to put players in this position.

[Kleeya]

I'm not fine with it in ex/savage. If you are parsing grey in those environments you're actually not really clearing the content. Other players are carrying you and clearing it for you. Carrying happens in normal mode too but the burden of doing so in ex/savage is usually significantly higher. It's not fair to put players in this position.

That's false. You can be grey and not being carried, doing what is expected of you. Because the pretty colors on fflogs are percentage based theyre will always be grey people, no matter how skilled the community as become. If everyone without exception become super good at the game, and deal a bare minimum of 15k dps while the the best ones does 17k, are you really gonna say "booooo boooo how can you deal only 15k ? Are you only auto attacking ? Please go learn your rotation and what a 1-2-3 combo is !" ?

There is a difference between a grey parser who do know his rotation, is doing mechanics correctly, but can not have a high ranking because he has not the best stuff available on this job yet, and a grey parser who only spam jolt 2 as a red mage. And i am not even talking of cases where you get low parses because the healers keep dying or dpsing too much, getting other players killed in the process, or the other team members fleeing you and letting you die when you get a stack marker.

Dont look only at the pretty colors, after all one of the argument in favor of fflogs is supposed to be "but people dont look only at that ! They are analyzing extensively what did happen in a fight before judging you !".

[Valic]

That's false. You can be grey and not being carried, doing what is expected of you. Because the pretty colors on fflogs are percentage based theyre will always be grey people, no matter how skilled the community as become. If everyone without exception become super good at the game, and deal a bare minimum of 15k dps while the the best ones does 17k, are you really gonna say "booooo boooo how can you deal only 15k ? Are you only auto attacking ? Please go learn your rotation and what a 1-2-3 combo is !" ?

There is a difference between a grey parser who do know his rotation, is doing mechanics correctly, but can not have a high ranking because he has not the best stuff available on this job yet, and a grey parser who only spam jolt 2 as a red mage. And i am not even talking of cases where you get low parses because the healers keep dying or dpsing too much, getting other players killed in the process, or the other team members fleeing you and letting you die when you get a stack marker.

Dont look only at the pretty colors, after all one of the argument in favor of fflogs is supposed to be "but people dont look only at that ! They are analyzing extensively what did happen in a fight before judging you !".

THIS.

Parse should also not be the identifier for who does what well. There's also the fact that not everyone who has a parse, are people who actively parse. There's plenty of people out there that may be doing better than most and hey, no one will ever know \o/

[xxvaynxx]

THIS.

Parse should also not be the identifier for who does what well. There's also the fact that not everyone who has a parse, are people who actively parse. There's plenty of people out there that may be doing better than most and hey, no one will ever know \o/

So your problem is people being mediocre but you're ok with people getting grey parses?
Got it.

I'll keep doing the bare minimum at my job!

[hasana]

So your problem is people being mediocre but you're ok with people getting grey parses?
Got it.

I'll keep doing the bare minimum at my job!

A player struggling and getting a grey parse because he is not a good player is ok.
A player getting grey parse because chill dude its just a game I'm having fun just pressing Jolt and why are you complaining boss died lol is not.

[Valic]

A player struggling and getting a grey parse because he is not a good player is ok.
A player getting grey parse because chill dude its just a game I'm having fun just pressing Jolt and why are you complaining boss died lol is not.

THIS. I love how people bring parse into it thinking it's the end all be all without this preface.

*snip

At this point, I'm ignoring your post after the first line of it acknowledging you're just a troll. Post something worth giving a damn.

[QT_Melon]

So your problem is people being mediocre but you're ok with people getting grey parses?
Got it.

I'll keep doing the bare minimum at my job!

I think people really REALLY need to understand how FFLogs work before using this as an example.

This is exactly why I feel it's more of a community problem than Devs

People who don't understand how FFLogs work using the worst example and understanding of it.
Then we already had someone do the very much OVERUSED and just getting old "You don't pay my sub" when there's really BARELY anyone who says that at all.

[Valic]

I do the bare minimum all the time.
Getting grey parses don't matter if I can clear with it.

Parses don't mean garbage in common content. No one's gonna care what percentile of what population is doing what damage... What I care about, is if a challenge is present. Doing mechanics to ensure the party doesn't die or that if there is a damage check, we pass it. Parse or not, idc, there needs to be a fine line in what accomplishes/wins for our casual content. People should not be encouraged to do bare minimum, they should be encouraged to "try".

The person you replied to on this part is miles ahead of you as a player, FYI. Like, they're significantly better then you. You missed the meme, my dude.

In regards to the general thread:

Players that want to improve are already doing so. Those that don't want to sink the time into improving in FFXIV will not. Both ways are fine.

At the end of the day, the only gameplay experience that matters is one's own. I've played with a ton of people that play poorly. Wanna know how many I remember to this day? None. Ok, one. But I still don't remember their name or anything super specific, but still.

If someone wants to not AoE or just press a single button, so be it. Maybe they'll learn one day, or maybe they won't. Either way, there is a good chance you won't see them again and they likely had fun seeing a "good" player play with them.

A few bad experiences isn't worth a livejournal post, even with a clearly jaded mindset being considered.

Not even on the radar of what I'm talking about. GG to you too, ironic or not, that mindset doesn't belong here any longer. What are you even going off of? Logs? Why is that the defining line of how you judge people lol. There is no meme, other than that you're one of the "elitists" people seem to talk about and think I am acting in this thread.

And no, the latter is not fine. Gameplay should rise in difficulty, not lower. Lest you have an unsatisfying experience because fights require less than bare minimum now. I'm not personally keen to just accepting that type of attitude and would prefer to see this game not settle on that mindset. I repeat, a player should not be rewarded for not trying. See my "k, ur dumb" paragraph as for opinions on this matter go.

I'm fine with this mentality in normal mode. A team full of grey parses can do that content just fine. It won't be super fast, but it can get done without too much trouble provided the players aren't reckless and aren't ludicrously terrible. I'm easy going in normal mode. It's enough for me to clear stuff without difficulty or drama.

I'm not fine with it in ex/savage. If you are parsing grey in those environments you're actually not really clearing the content. Other players are carrying you and clearing it for you. Carrying happens in normal mode too but the burden of doing so in ex/savage is usually significantly higher. It's not fair to put players in this position.

Parse or not in normal mode content, the fact that "it can get done without much effort" is a large issue and presents itself as okay to not try. I feel that shouldn't be average.