The Reason Zenos.

[Valic]

I kind of agree with the previous notions that Zenos is most likely just being used as a catalyst to turn Zodiark into an active threat despite the Rejoining not yet being complete.

How that ends up happening is anyone's guess, but I kind of hope he ends up becoming something beyond simply tempered and more an avatar of the primal so we can actually get his perspective on the events that have been transpiring.



I honestly never got that impression from any of his dialogue.

It sounded more like he was genuinely resigned to death and satisfied after having gotten his big battle with us and only realized he could cheat death like an Ascian after the fact then decided to make the most of it.

Considering how he talks about us as if we're pawns in a grand theater.... While I did fall for it, later down the line I see he's only just getting started and everything we'd done was merely testing grounds to him. That's what I gauged from it all though anyways.

Itll be ham fisted if he won this time. Like we already beat him. TWICE! The only reason he even won in the first place was cause we wadnt high enough in levels. They cant reuse the same trick. If he was going to win and have it mattered he should've done it the first time. Otherwise as it is now, itll be stupid him winning now.

Twice? I only recall once in the ending of SB tbh. Why would he expend all of his energy when there's the possibility for so much more? He's beaten us twice just as well, and that was before the "final fight" when we actually learned how to step up. He wasn't using his full power until possibly the Shinryu fight and even then he was just using a primal like a puppet.

Except he wasn't just "testing out". The fight at the end of the Ala Mhigo dungeon proved that we could handle him at full power, so he fused with Shinryu thinking it'd give him the edge he needed to defeat us. Since we still manage to beat him up, he admits defeat, and then kills himself. His surprised reaction in the last cutscene of 4.3 indicates that his soul jumping to some random Resistance member wasn't something he planned.


So you pretty much agree with the point that you've been arguing against? He'll eventually lose against us.


So you basically want a stronger version of Grynewaht? Y'know, the Roegadyn who kept trying to kill us, to the point of comically being forced to retreat in a Team Rocket kind of way?

I like you think he used his full power. He didn't and never clarified he did. He fused with Shinryu, not to give him any edge... He never once admitted defeat to us either even when he "died". He literally asked us if we'd kill the primal or bind or etc so on. He did not NEED Shinryu, he wanted to test the true power of his might and the will of a god and go beyond that vs the godslayer. While he may not have planned to come back how he did, he did and he's better for it. We defeat him though as the primal he was, not truly him as himself by ourselves. We even were shown just how damned hard it was at the end of Ghymlet Dark but that was under control of another character even.... And even then when given the chance for Zenos to go against ElidiZenos, Eldidibus yeeted out cuz he knew he'd lose. Especially because Zenos is starting to understand just how powerful he CAN be, beyond his already godly power. He's also more skilled than Elidibus imo, not just using brute strength magic but actually smart when it comes to destroying someone or getting what he wants. He's vindictive if that wasn't already obvious with the death of his father and claiming his body back after taking several bodies prior.

As far as Grynewaht goes... Someone already mentioned he was more of comedy relief than anything. He's a bit of a different story, he isn't strong, or willed to get stronger. He doesn't have any true pride and he thinks more weapons and machines can fell a hero. Grynewaht is a very basic level villain, he wants a better job placement and the only way to do it is through X. He doesn't complete X, he fails, he fails, and fails again, but he doesn't learn anything from it or go forward coming back any stronger or better for it. If anything, it only became "dark" once we saw him at the end of that dungeon and he gave up all of his humanity to become a mutant. Zenos isn't exactly... that base or stupid. He doesn't have much humanity to begin with, he's a sociopath to a degree and wants for a higher feeling than such base motives as country and rewards... material practices and promotions. What does any of that mean when one opens their eyes to the boarders of existence? The stars themselves, life, creation, all of it. Grynewaht is a moron, always was, and died being one through sheer dumbfounded bloodlust, revenge, and pettiness. Zenos isn't just bent on us for revenge sake or wanting to kill because he needs to to ascend for someone else or do something to accomplish it. It's the fight itself that promotes his purpose and thought. He WANTS to fight us with both of us at our most powerful. He WANTS to see the outcome of this given his newfound knowledge and ability. There's no requirement or need to, it's all as simple as becoming the godliest figure you possibly can, beyond any mortal coil and fight the universe's most powerful champion and prove the testament of what we are.

In the end... not every ending has to be this great empathetic tragedy like we get with Emet Selch or the warriors of darkness. They're nice, but they don't make "true" evil villains. The reason we like Emet is rather for the amount of difference we have between one another that paints him as a villain. In the end, he isn't the "I feel like killing because muahahaha". He never was, he was a hero to his people and wanted to stay that, he failed and the goal he had in mind to us comes across as evil. He's as much a villain as is a ghost trapped in your house that doesn't wanna be there. He's not groaning and moaning necessarily because he wants to, but because he had no choice to. Same case with Emet, he carried on the legacies of Ascians and the original star that was prior to the sundering. Putting at stake everything, even lives if he had to in order to bring back life and restore everything he loved. We're even given the same question from Alphinaud... Would we do the same? It'd make us a villain too if we did, but we wouldn't be the type to just do malicious things for our own self satisfaction or gain... (aka, kill cuz HECK YEH KILLING). I appreciate Emet Selch and well written "villains" but imo, this game needs to end with a true evil villain. Not just someone we empathize with and regret having to fight... Someone who is genuinely the bad guy through and through without a doubt and without us, everyone is doomed before them. I don't mean doomed for some greater purpose of sacrifice or doomed to slavery for another country or doomed to become another entity... I mean genuine life/reality extinction level.