Tanks should have increased enmity by deafault!

[Maeka]

I wouldn't advise that personally. A recurring theme I've been having in E4S PUGS is MT dies due to being greedy in the first EE (slow) and due to the OT not setting up stance the highest dps not only eats the first auto but also eats the orange stack (resulting in a domino effect). If the OT had stance it could salvage that by eating the auto and living enough to survive orange and be able to set up mitigation.

If tank stance OT has no chance in hell over taking aggro then there is no reason to not have it on. Some people are lazy and don't want to, but with how strong voke is and how enmity is this expac it's best to keep it on as there won't be an issue.

Because lbr people goof up and you can always better save a run by playing safe and having OT ready to go, and again in a fight like E4S you want both tanks to be top aggro as mechs like Blue knockback-minibusters target those in particular.

I suppose in Savage, perhaps?

But the OP is talking about PUGs, which I assume he's talking about Normal Trial Roulettes. (EDIT: Re-read the OP and ok they're talking about Alliance Raids, but still.)

If you want to go PUG a Savage... um... You're far braver than I, lol.

[Noitems]

I suppose in Savage, perhaps?

But the OP is talking about PUGs, which I assume he's talking about Normal Trial Roulettes. (EDIT: Re-read the OP and ok they're talking about Alliance Raids, but still.)

If you want to go PUG a Savage... um... You're far braver than I, lol.

Even then, core fundamental value of tanking as both MT/OT is to hold aggro and not let the dps/heals become a target for the boss due to enmity. That's the reason they had all the tools back in 3.x and 4.x like diversion and lucid, to make tanks have an easier time holding aggro. The only made tanks lives easier by removing those options and reinforcing tank aggro through mastery and stance, that's still no real excuse to let heals/dps eat a hit that isn't needed.

[Alaeacus]

I don't always have tank stance on when off-tanking but I usually Focus Target the main tank and Stance/Provoke very early.

Your problem probably isn't with offtanks not having good aggro built. Most offtanks, especially in 24-mans, just space out and do something like watch Netflix while they play. They don't even pay attention and they don't care to. Half of them have no rotation and are basically auto-attacking (I've sat and watched them many times).

Either that or they power-leveled through PotD/HoH and play like they are a dps.

It's so easy to grab aggro as a tank, I've come to the conclusion that most tanks aren't even trying. Even WHEN they have tank stance on, a lot of times they stand with all the DPS and are constantly fighting me for aggro, cleaving the group in the process.

[ForteNightshade]

I suppose in Savage, perhaps?

But the OP is talking about PUGs, which I assume he's talking about Normal Trial Roulettes. (EDIT: Re-read the OP and ok they're talking about Alliance Raids, but still.)

If you want to go PUG a Savage... um... You're far braver than I, lol.

Normal trials aren't nearly threatening enough for this to matter. I can survive several autos from Garuda or even Titan (normal). It's only in EX and Savage where this would ever be an issue. And the solution is the OT should monitor their aggro and turn off stance if needed or simply Shirk.