One dungeon per patch!?

[linay]

Let's not pretend dungeons alone bought us all that; any fair accounting would demand we also throw Diadem, Diadem Revamped, Wonderous Tails, and perhaps Aquapolis into the costs section.

What kind of accounting is that?

Diadem is being revised, WT is still here as far as I know (haven't done it in a long time), and Aquapolis has its counterparts in the latter expansions.

[Shurrikhan]

What kind of accounting is that?

Diadem is being revised, WT is still here as far as I know (haven't done it in a long time), and Aquapolis has its counterparts in the latter expansions.

As previously accounted...

Gains: Counterparts of Expeditionary Missions, counterparts of randomized side-content, and the only unique thing SB brought -- ultimates.
Costs: Only the dungeon per dungeon-granting patch.

Really? Wouldn't it be more likely that only the unique portion was bought solely with the time saved from including a dungeon fewer?

A mere single dungeon per patch did not afford us nearly all of our side-content, as the original accounting suggested.

[linay]

As previously accounted...

Gains: Counterparts of Expeditionary Missions, counterparts of randomized side-content, and the only unique thing SB brought -- ultimates.
Costs: Only the dungeon per dungeon-granting patch.

Really? Wouldn't it be more likely that only the unique portion was bought solely with the time saved from including a dungeon fewer?

A mere single dungeon per patch did not afford us nearly all of our side-content, as the original accounting suggested.

Ok, so aside from Diadem, which can arguably be covered by one Eureka zone (plus a minor update with FC subs), the rest in your list are not costs at all. WT is about doing existing contents, and it still exists, with added content and reward, and Aquapolis has newer counterparts.

The only real loss we got in Stormblood was the dungeon every other patch, so while it may not account for every new thing we got in SB (PVP revamp and new mode and BLU content was not mentioned in the original post you responded to), that is the comparison to be made, as not many people seem to care about Diadem, which is being updated again this expansion.

[Shurrikhan]

Ok, so aside from Diadem, which can arguably be covered by one Eureka zone (plus a minor update with FC subs), the rest in your list are not costs at all. WT is about doing existing contents, and it still exists, with added content and reward, and Aquapolis has newer counterparts.

The only real loss we got in Stormblood was the dungeon every other patch, so while it may not account for every new thing we got in SB (PVP revamp and new mode and BLU content was not mentioned in the original post you responded to), that is the comparison to be made, as not many people seem to care about Diadem, which is being updated again this expansion.

They were each allotted, and made from, development time that was available despite having more dungeons than we have now. That allotment didn't just disappear. Whatever that amount of time it afforded in HW could afford in SB should not therefore be considered a consequence merely of removing a further dungeon. That'd be like saying you can have 3 of A and 2 of B or... 2 of A and 2 of B... despite neither likely getting any costlier.

What's next? We get 1 dungeon and... only as much side-content as we had in SB? And we'll be cool with that as long as they say that the time spent on dungeons will be spent on side-content? (All without noting that the time that was already being spent on side-content, prior to the removal of another dungeon was subtly halved?)

I'm fine with losing a dungeon, but I'm not fine with blindly expecting that we'll get noticeably more out of a shuffling of development numbers. I've seen too many games call an overall reduction (or no increase in output despite an alleged staff increase) a "re-allotment" of development time to be so optimistic now. When they show me what we're getting in total, and that total seems better to most than what we'd have had with a dungeon more per dungeon patch, I'll be happy. Until then, I'll be wary.

[linay]

They were each allotted, and made from, development time that was available despite having more dungeons than we have now. That allotment didn't just disappear. Whatever that amount of time it afforded in HW could afford in SB should not therefore be considered a consequence merely of removing a further dungeon. That'd be like saying you can have 3 of A and 2 of B or... 2 of A and 2 of B... despite neither likely getting any costlier.

What's next? We get 1 dungeon and... only as much side-content as we had in SB? And we'll be cool with that as long as they say that the time spent on dungeons will be spent on side-content? (All without noting that the time that was already being spent on side-content, prior to the removal of another dungeon was subtly halved?)

I'm fine with losing a dungeon, but I'm not fine with blindly expecting that we'll get noticeably more out of a shuffling of development numbers. I've seen too many numbers call an overall reduction (or no increase in output despite an alleged staff increase) a "re-allotment" of development time to be so optimistic now. When they show me what we're getting in total, and that total seems better to most than what we'd have had with a dungeon more per dungeon patch, I'll be happy. Until then, I'll be wary.

They were made in Heavensward, which only had 3 more dungeons (but 2 less normal trials, 1 less EX trial, and 2 less Ultimate fights) than Stormblood. Switch out Diadem for 1 Eureka zone, and you still have the other 3 zones. So the "3 of A and 2 of B or... 2 of A and 2 of B" just does not fit.

[Shurrikhan]

They were made in Heavensward, which only had 3 more dungeons (but 2 less normal trials, 1 less EX trial, and 2 less Ultimate fights) than Stormblood. Switch out Diadem for 1 Eureka zone, and you still have the other 3 zones. So the "3 of A and 2 of B or... 2 of A and 2 of B" just does not fit.

So, again, a single extra dungeon with few to no new art assets (Hard Modes) gave us both Pagos and BCoB Ultimate, another Pyros and UW Ultimate? And that's all it took? Nevermind any staff increases. Nevermind getting one fewer job. It's all just the single dungeon per major raid patch?

[linay]

So, again, a single extra dungeon with few to no new art assets (Hard Modes) gave us both Pagos and BCoB Ultimate, another Pyros and UW Ultimate? And that's all it took? Nevermind any staff increases. Nevermind getting one fewer job. It's all just the single dungeon per major raid patch?

Uh, we don't know everything that it took from the development perspective. The loss of dungeon is just what's apparent and obvious from the content perspective. Even one less job isn't really true with BLU (as limited as it is) and its content.