To Mr.Yoshida and dev. [DRK 5.2 Request]

[Alaeacus]

I don't think your personal anecdote is a good way gauge job performance. I think there's something wrong with the way you play if you can't survive as DRK with your average pug healer.

Nowhere did I say my personal opinion is how anyone should gauge where DRK is at on a balance scale with other tanks. My personal opinion is giving the reason why I am not choosing DRK over PLD. If I feel the way I do, chances are other people do as well. To discount personal anecdotes just because they are anecdotes is the hallmark of an intellectual echo chamber mentality. Personal anecdotes are real, because they are how people think, regardless what your flawed endgame metrics show you. You aren't going to change how people think by just saying "You need to git gud", which is exactly what you did using different words. I survive fine with your average PUG healer. I survive better with PLD. That is me. Nowhere did I claim to speak on behalf of all tanks, which means you are arguing against nobody with your snarky comments.

When a ShB dungeon boss is at 10% and DRK is the only person alive, you are NOT going to outlast the boss before you die, no matter how "GUD" you are. The self-heals are just not there. Quit pretending like you will. You at least have a chance with PLD.

You haven't added anything of value to this conversation other than "anecdotes are bad, git gud with metrics or gtfo of the thread". That's snobby and elitist.

[John_Milter]

Hmm... Is this convey how vulnerable and incompetent the current DRK would become without the current TBN?

Imagine Myste humming and singing in the shadow "Without Me, You're only You ~♪" :

Your removing what makes the class special, also you'd have to add in another cooldown skill if you remove TBN, Warrior has 2 30 second defensive skills, Paladin has a bunch so its really not that big of an issue. GNB has a short cool down defensive skill

dark knight already does the lowest damage albeit by not much but s till the lowest

[cactuarzzzz]

Warrior has 2 30 second defensive skills

You're referring to Nascent Flash and Raw Intuition? Didn't both abilities share recast timer or am I miss something?

[Hierro]

That's snobby and elitist.

I was led to believe that no matter what evidence I'd present, you wouldn't care. You've literally said "I don't care what anyone says to the contrary." Should any reasonable person reading that bother with explaining? Well, if you want "facts and logic," I'm more than happy to oblige.

When you combine Sheltron with rampart or whatever, mitigation suffers from diminishing returns from how their multipliers work. When you combine rampart with TBN, however, the mitigation is improved from both cooldowns synergizing together. There are no diminishing returns, in fact the opposite has occurred. Now, if you have TBN+SW active in a large pull, you must have noticed how sturdy that shield is. By the time the shield is gone, it's only 8 seconds until you gain access to another 25% of your HP. In that sense, TBN almost functions like a sort of HoT in the context of large pulls.

In between TBN activations, Abyssal Drain best serves as something to bridge the gap and lessen the need for your healer to get involved in the first place. Just imagine this scenario I've lived through countless times myself: You pop TBN+SW, nothing happens to your HP bar, kept safe and sound. The moment the shield breaks after several seconds, your HP bar slowly drains. SW runs it course, and TBN is available again, and your HP's fall is halted once more, but TBN breaks and the descension begins again, only to be outdone because Abyssal Drain is used at a well-decided moment because it's when the majority of monsters are alive, so you heal burst more than your average 1200 potency heal, and TBN becomes active once more. By the time your third TBN has been breached, the pull has been sheered downed to an easily manageable size. Within the span of 45 seconds, you are well covered for because of your CD usage, and with minimum healer intervention.

PLD, on the other hand, has to sacrifice GCDs and resources in order to heal. Hallowed Ground's nice, but at the end of the day it's only 10 seconds for any given situation. As I said in another thread, DRK never has to sacrifice DPS for their survivability.

If you think DRK can't solo a ShB dungeon boss from 10% no matter what, you need to broaden your horizons. Maybe you should hop over to my server and I'll be glad to show you.

[SleepyNeko]

SCH: Excog -> Recitation -> Emergency Tactics + Adlo, and maybe 2 Lustrates will heal it.

I'll get back to you on AST. It's totally possible, I don't know why you think WHM is the only one capable of doing it quickly

This will be fine with most encounters I guess but I see myself dying without benediction during Oro Stonecrusher + Megalith + Mini Titan autoing, especially since the Stonecrusher already takes like over 5-6 seconds of your walking dead so you have 4 seconds to go from 1 to max hp on a DRK with 147k~ HP.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

This will be fine with most encounters I guess but I see myself dying without benediction during Oro Stonecrusher + Megalith + Mini Titan autoing, especially since the Stonecrusher already takes like over 5-6 seconds of your walking dead so you have 4 seconds to go from 1 to max hp on a DRK with 147k~ HP.

Thats why you pop a TBN before the first hit of Stonecrusher, so Walking Dead procs on the 2nd hit, buying your healers 3 seconds extra time (AST-SCH setup usually).

[SleepyNeko]

Thats why you pop a TBN before the first hit of Stonecrusher, so Walking Dead procs on the 2nd hit, buying your healers 3 seconds extra time (AST-SCH setup usually).

From my personal experience in pugs I am never full hp during that phase and TBN might be still on cd so I can never rely on it, also healers never top up enough to survive the first hit due to the expectation of an invuln.

[Quor]

From my personal experience in pugs I am never full hp during that phase and TBN might be still on cd so I can never rely on it, also healers never top up enough to survive the first hit due to the expectation of an invuln.

Then quite frankly those healers need to git gud. A single GCD heal to top up before the buster saves a lot of trouble a few seconds later. It's a fairly simple equation; either healer throws an extra GCD of healing, or else SE completely reworks a core element of a job that's been in play since the job's inception. Tell those healers to get off their lazy asses and start healing. To do otherwise is to rob them (the dev team) of precious development time that could be used for useful stuff like giving Viera more head options, or literally anything else.

[jetfire117]

When a ShB dungeon boss is at 10% and DRK is the only person alive, you are NOT going to outlast the boss before you die, no matter how "GUD" you are. The self-heals are just not there. Quit pretending like you will

In shb leveling dungeons, (depending on which) you're maybe right. But I successfully solo'd bosses in lvl 80 dungeons. Drk may lack it's old self-healing, but it's still possible to solo.

[John_Milter]

Nowhere did I say my personal opinion is how anyone should gauge where DRK is at on a balance scale with other tanks. My personal opinion is giving the reason why I am not choosing DRK over PLD. If I feel the way I do, chances are other people do as well. To discount personal anecdotes just because they are anecdotes is the hallmark of an intellectual echo chamber mentality. Personal anecdotes are real, because they are how people think, regardless what your flawed endgame metrics show you. You aren't going to change how people think by just saying "You need to git gud", which is exactly what you did using different words. I survive fine with your average PUG healer. I survive better with PLD. That is me. Nowhere did I claim to speak on behalf of all tanks, which means you are arguing against nobody with your snarky comments.

When a ShB dungeon boss is at 10% and DRK is the only person alive, you are NOT going to outlast the boss before you die, no matter how "GUD" you are. The self-heals are just not there. Quit pretending like you will. You at least have a chance with PLD.

You haven't added anything of value to this conversation other than "anecdotes are bad, git gud with metrics or gtfo of the thread". That's snobby and elitist.

Its pretty unlikely that the other tanks would fair better in those situations, Yeah you have a chance with PLD but at the cost of your dps. Its not like being good at a tank really matters when the rest of your team is garbage in the first place.

Also "If I feel the way that I do chances are other people do as well" lmao