Tank Balance Patch next pls? Nascent Flash Target Requirement Removed Pls

[Argyle_Darkheart]

I think that if they were to remove the targeting requirement on Nascent Flash, they should also remove the ability to target another player with Nascent Flash (i.e. make it be used for personal benefit only). Alternatively, just make the self-healing on NF only apply to your target, and remove the personal benefit. It's not like you can use HoS on both yourself and a teammate and the same time.

So, nerf WAR?

Just leave Nascent Flash alone.

[Reynhart]

Just leave Nascent Flash alone.

There's this thing called drawbacks.

If a skill is powerful, it has to have a restriction to not make it imbalanced. The restriction on NF is the party member requirement. If it's removed, you'd have to reduce the effect, or put another restriction, like a bigger CD.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

There's this thing called drawbacks.

If a skill is powerful, it has to have a restriction to not make it imbalanced. The restriction on NF is the party member requirement. If it's removed, you'd have to reduce the effect, or put another restriction, like a bigger CD.

I'm sorry, but what part of "leave Nascent Flash alone" did you not understand? I don't care about the targeting requirement in the slightest.

[Shurrikhan]

There's this thing called drawbacks.

If a skill is powerful, it has to have a restriction to not make it imbalanced. The restriction on NF is the party member requirement. If it's removed, you'd have to reduce the effect, or put another restriction, like a bigger CD.

Unless RI is just a generally inferior skill to NF such that they honestly don't belong in mutual exclusion with each other in any group content (or, put less nicely, RI doesn't belong on anyone's bar outside of very specific tankbusters), NF losing its targeting requirement doesn't affect its strength in any way.

These demands are not going to stop with removing the targeting requirement on Nascent Flash. Next, people will demand that the shared cooldown be removed from Raw Intuition. "I can't use my main defensive ability while self-healing with NF, it's so unfair!" etc.

I think that if they were to remove the targeting requirement on Nascent Flash, they should also remove the ability to target another player with Nascent Flash (i.e. make it be used for personal benefit only). Alternatively, just make the self-healing on NF only apply to your target, and remove the personal benefit. It's not like you can use HoS on both yourself and a teammate and the same time.

Odd then that Dragoon's complaints about Dragon Sight didn't lead into anything else. Heck, I hadn't even seen them request any of the potency buffs they got; they'd merely asked that Monk be less overpowered so that there was a more even state of balance among all melee.

You can't treat any/every simple QoL request as a slippery slope just because the request came from a Warrior. Remember, that QoL change will most likely result in a throughput loss in exchange for its hassle spared, just like 5.0 Dragon Sight does.

At the least, if you're going to insist on any such change carrying an impactful precedent, why not consider how it could act in the context of paired ability design (e.g. how the NF change might affect Intervention), rather than solely how it will have given the mouseish Warriors a cookie?

I don't personally find targeting someone else with NF all that annoying, but I can see why it would be to others. The particular request is harmless. At best it'd spare some delay from controller-based players as not to waste duration, similar to Salted Earth finally being able to reliably click through enemy hitboxes; more likely, they'd be trading an OT effect unusable in solo content for a more effective RI when and only when it syncs with the Warrior's full burst that they already had access to except, again, in solo content. Do we really need to go so far out of our way just to stick it to the Warrior during Beastmen quests? It has absolutely no effect on other tanks anywhere that matters.

[Lyth]

It's not a quality of life change, though.

RI/NF are opposite sides of the same coin, much like Sheltron/Intervention are opposite sides of the same coin. They're separated for the same reason that HoS and TBN can't be used on both yourself and your co-tank at the same time. NF is your single-target support ability. The only difference is that it also provides some personal benefit at the expense of being slightly weaker as a mitigation skill on your co-tank.

I know that there are a lot of players who ignore the teammate support effect and just use it as a personal cooldown. If that's the general preference of both players and the devs, then they should commit in that direction entirely and remove the support effect. If the function of this ability is as a support action, however, then the bulk of of the benefit should be on your teammate, not on yourself. What I dislike is that people want to have their cake and eat it too.

And if you're struggling with Beast Tribe quests on WAR, I'm not really sure what to say.

[Shurrikhan]

And if you're struggling with Beast Tribe quests on WAR, I'm not really sure what to say.

That's quite the strawman. One can leave out, say, Clemency or Spirit's Within and do casual content just fine as well. Does it then make sense to bar access to those, as well?

I agree that NF's design is currently haphazard. No other CD, in and of itself, provides simultaneous advantage for yourself and your cotank. And I'd be fine with it losing the self-heal in order to bring it back into line with other similar utilities.

But, for now, the self-heal exists and is situationally superior to RI, especially in casual content. Why give a tool a capacity that would make it ideal for X, but then bar from X? Either it should become quite clearly just an external support tool or it should be allowed in the situations it otherwise seems best for.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Unless you want to argue that the current implementation of Nascent Flash makes WAR too powerful, I see no reason to change it.

Nothing about its design is problematic, from a gameplay standpoint.

If you need to support another player, then you use Nascent Flash.

If you need to support yourself, then you use either Raw Intuition or Nascent Flash.

The same dichotomy that exists between Sheltron/Intervention et al. exists between Raw Intuition/Nascent Flash. The only difference is that WAR has two choices when it comes to personal use.

What exactly is so wrong with that?

[Ladon]

That's quite the strawman. One can leave out, say, Clemency or Spirit's Within and do casual content just fine as well. Does it then make sense to bar access to those, as well?

I agree that NF's design is currently haphazard. No other CD, in and of itself, provides simultaneous advantage for yourself and your cotank. And I'd be fine with it losing the self-heal in order to bring it back into line with other similar utilities.

But, for now, the self-heal exists and is situationally superior to RI, especially in casual content. Why give a tool a capacity that would make it ideal for X, but then bar from X? Either it should become quite clearly just an external support tool or it should be allowed in the situations it otherwise seems best for.

You mean like Divine Veil? Must be nice to have an extra shield that actually effects you so you can use it solo.

[Shurrikhan]

You mean like Divine Veil? Must be nice to have an extra shield that actually effects you so you can use it solo.

I've likewise been pushing for Divine Veil to either have a beneficial effect during its pre-stage or to at least affect the Paladin. This isn't some sort of pro-Warrior discrimination; I just don't like awkwardly designed tools and this happens to be a thread on NF, a tool I think is currently awkwardly designed.

On a Monk thread, my attention would likely go straight to Anatman. It's that simple.

[Nedkel]

Acutally dividing cooldown on nascent flash and raw intuition would be cool.

If war is not allowed to be good DPS tank, then let him be the hardest.

Btw Divine veil should give PLD a shield too, and intervention should be free of cost and have normal cooldown.