Tank Balance Patch next pls? Nascent Flash Target Requirement Removed Pls

[Brightamethyst]

How in the hell is it meant to be used solo when it's literally impossible to use it while solo?

The self heal is only useful if you're taking damage. You know, like while solo.

Skills aren't really designed to be used just in one type of content.

Pretty sure most tank skills are designed around just one type of content.

[Satarn]

The self heal is only useful if you're taking damage. You know, like while solo.
Pretty sure most tank skills are designed around just one type of combat.

Tanks take damage in literally any type of battle content, that's kind of the point of the role.
Word "content" isn't a synonym for "combat" and what are you getting at anyways?

Are you trying to be funny or just posting while high, because I honestly can't tell.

[Brightamethyst]

Tanks take damage in literally any type of battle content, that's kind of the point of the role.

Off-tanking is a thing. 24-mans are a thing. Hunts are a thing. You know, all those things that don't involve being the main tank all the time? That's battle content where you're probably not taking damage.

Word "content" isn't a synonym for "combat" and what are you getting at anyways?

Meant to write 'content', fixed that. But also, yes. Tank skills are designed around being a tank, and sometimes even specifically around raids and trials (shirk.) Rampart does nothing if you're not tanking.

[Breadgehog]

The crux of this argument is really that NF is situationally better as a personal cooldown than RI especially in trash, because on-demand CDs are layered over heavier ones by most people due to their high availability and low durations. If you currently have IR available, NF is going to tend to accomplish more than RI would in the same timeframe, because the actual healing received works out to more than 6s of effective health. It's like how Abyssal Drain is an absolute god-tier self-heal in massive trash packs and wholly unnoticeable on bosses. The way things are, SE should either allow NF to be cast without a target, or somehow rework its parity with RI. Anything beyond that is largely semantic, and a lot of the comparisons being made hold no water. Dragon Sight is useable without a target because it makes up so much of DRG's damage; Intervention requires one because it's a weaker, targeted Sheltron. RI is only situationally stronger than NF, and that disparity (and the doubt that comes with it) is what causes the issue. It's less "WAR needs this to maintain viability" and more "SE has given us this support tool that intentionally or not is better than its personal equivalent in some situations, they need to either lean into it or fix said equivalent to be the clearer choice".

[Satarn]

Off-tanking is a thing. 24-mans are a thing. Hunts are a thing. You know, all those things that don't involve being the main tank all the time? That's battle content where you're probably not taking damage.

Raid damage is a thing, double busters are a thing, adds are a thing, all that even in casual content. In extreme/savage you will rarely get to be "just-another-dps" kind of OT, due to swaps and again double TBs as well as double autos. "Tanks take damage in literally any type of battle content" doesn't translate to "tanks take damage literally 24/7, all the time, without a second of respite".

So why imply that solo is the only time you'd take damage? Especially damage that even needs healing. Basically, what is your point?

My original comment was poking at NyneSwordz somehow coming to a conclusion that a skill that requires a separate target to use could've been designed for solo specifically, despite solo situations, by definition, not allowing for an additional target. You know, because you're solo.

Meant to write 'content', fixed that. But also, yes. Tank skills are designed around being a tank, and sometimes even specifically around raids and trials (shirk.) Rampart does nothing if you're not tanking.

Dungeons, msq, trials, raids, alliance raids, deep dungeons are all different types of content and Rampart and Nascent Flash are useful in all of those. Shirk is useful in all of those excluding dungeons(both types) and MSQ. Every skill is useful in more than one type of content, it doesn't mean "every single type of content" and I never implied that.

Again: what is your point? And why are you taking everything as either 100 or 0?

[Ekimmak]

Honestly, I'd be fine with them extending it to also include other Alliances (along with Shirk) and leaving it there. There aren't many fights where I don't have party members that I take enough damage for it to matter.

Not saying unsynched content doesn't matter at all, just thinking that it doesn't matter "to the devs" enough to get a change.

[VenKitsune]

The self heal is only useful if you're taking damage. You know, like while solo.



Pretty sure most tank skills are designed around just one type of content.

If you NEED a self heal in solo content, especially as a tank with the extra health and other cooldowns, you have other problems.

And well...If it was true that most tank skills are designed around just one type of content, which it isn't, they'd be designed around raiding. And you know what's been super common this expansion (when the skill was added) in raids? Double tank busters.

E1S - Double lasers, Spear tank busters.
E2S - Shadowflame.
E3S - Riptide
E4S - Megalith, Blue TBs, Stonecrusher if you don't invlun them.

Thats not even counting the massive raidwide damage. Edens Gravity, Flares, Puddles, Yellow, orange and blue marks...

When was NF added? Shadowbringers.
When did Double tank busters start becoming more common? Shadowbringers.
In which expansion did a tank need to use self healing in solo content? None of them.

[Carstien]

By what authority can you claim that though? As designed, Nascent Flash functions as both a personal cooldown and an off-tank support cooldown. Comparing it to the other off-tank support cooldowns is misguided because it's not like the other off-tank support cooldowns.



Again, by what authority can you claim that? The fact of the matter is that WAR has a cooldown choice between Nascent Flash and Raw Intuition. Is that a problem, for some reason?



Why though? Nascent Flash is powerful and is one of the few remaining abilities that produces a synergy between offense and defense.

In the absence of a job balance issue, removing the self-healing component of Nascent Flash will only make WAR less interesting; I can't fathom why anyone would suggest or support such a change.

I can claim that because of the way they are tied together by cooldown and the context of every other tank and their short cd abilities. TBN targeting self or party member, heart of stone doing the same, sheltron on self while intervention on ally. RI and flash are in that short cd bracket and they share the same resource. That's enough to confirm without any doubts they are meant to compare as a pair to those other abilities.

This is why you don't evaluate a skill on its own, you evaluate the kit as a whole.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

I can claim that because of the way they are tied together by cooldown and the context of every other tank and their short cd abilities. TBN targeting self or party member, heart of stone doing the same, sheltron on self while intervention on ally. RI and flash are in that short cd bracket and they share the same resource.

I'm well aware of this line of reasoning, and it makes sense. But so what?

That's enough to confirm without any doubts they are meant to compare as a pair to those other abilities.

And? Do they not compare? Nascent Flash has additional defensive capability as a personal self-sustain cooldown. Does that mean it doesn't compare?

This is why you don't evaluate a skill on its own, you evaluate the kit as a whole.

But you haven't really evaluated anything. All you've said is that Nascent Flash isn't being used as intended.

Is that it? Is that a problem? Why? You haven't at all addressed this.

You're looking at this from a developer's standpoint, but you're not a developer.

[Lyth]

These demands are not going to stop with removing the targeting requirement on Nascent Flash. Next, people will demand that the shared cooldown be removed from Raw Intuition. "I can't use my main defensive ability while self-healing with NF, it's so unfair!" etc.

I think that if they were to remove the targeting requirement on Nascent Flash, they should also remove the ability to target another player with Nascent Flash (i.e. make it be used for personal benefit only). Alternatively, just make the self-healing on NF only apply to your target, and remove the personal benefit. It's not like you can use HoS on both yourself and a teammate and the same time.