Tank Balance Patch next pls? Nascent Flash Target Requirement Removed Pls

[Shurrikhan]

WAR lost its tank stance for the same mastery and gain its additional effect on ToB, expanded to all healing actions, while having Raw Intuition uptime extremely buffed. Meaning that now, WAR is no longer the tank that get hit for more, but still the one that's healed for more. And other tanks still have no way of refilling all their HP while still doing a lot of damage at all.

1. Shelltron was also buffed and TBN, already abnormally strong, was buffed by 67%.
2. It gets healed for more for the duration of that CD alone. You know what the other tanks have? A better on-demand, a more flexible on-demand, or an oGCD heal. If you want to call ToB or Warrior's tookit as a whole overpowered, have at it, but let's not pretend that Warrior was uniquely able to hold onto the heal-efficiency advantages of its old tank stance.
3. Except via, you know, either the other oGCD heal or the means by which to take less damage in the first place. And "all"? ToB and Equilibrium are a far cry from Benediction.

Before, the only other tank that could do that in AoE situation was DRK, and it was nerfed rock bottom.

When did our focus switch to AoE situations and how was DRK nerfed to rock bottom?
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I'm not sure what narrative you're trying to push at the moment. Is it "WAR is overpowered! 3.0"? I'd have to disagree unless taken at the loosest of definitions or with a bare-knuckle focus on Holmgang or theoretical absorption/bonus-healing. Is it, hidden behind many layers of tangentials, that PLD's reliable mitigation kit is currently lacking in throughput over time? If so I could agree. GNB's? Marginally. But, honestly I can't make heads or tails of these stretches at present. I can only see that they're stretched conclusions at best, which would seem to indicate some agenda at work.

[Reynhart]

[LIST="1"]Shelltron was also buffed

In TB situation, Sheltron was nerfed since block strength have been greatly reduced. Raw Intuition is now more powerful, and available as often. (It's also free, but since the oath gauge does not have that much use, it's basically irrelevant)

If you want to call ToB or Warrior's tookit as a whole overpowered, have at it

I don't, but it's a fact that its tank stance removal was treated better than PLD's.

And "all"? ToB and Equilibrium are a far cry from Benediction.

ToB + Equilibrium + NF and Inner Chaos can heal you to full during 6s. It has its drawback of requiring a party member, but it's still something only WAR can do, and with very short anticipation.

I'm not sure what narrative you're trying to push at the moment. Is it "WAR is overpowered! 3.0"?

No, it's not. It's that NF has an emergency potential far greater than anything other tanks have, that only asks you to not be the last man standing, which, let's be honest, won't change the outcome very much if RI can't keep you alive long enough. So, saying that Warrior was heavily hit in the surviving department is a big stretch. On top of that, NF is the only CD that covers both tank at the same time. Sure TBN is really powerful, but if you face a double TB, you can still only use it on one person; Technically, PLD could use both Sheltron and Intervention, but it suddenly requires a full oath gauge, thus, a far longer "CD" than NF, especially if the fight doesn't allow 100% uptime.

[Nedkel]

Imagine if they removed clemency and instead added an effect to intervention where you get healed when you use intervention on an ally. Then told you it isn't a cooldown for you, it is only there for party support. That is where warrior is at.

That would be something really good, no seriously i want it right now. D:
Clemency in its current shape and form is useless, it cost pld too much to use this heal.

[JoHighnes]

That would be something really good, no seriously i want it right now. D:
Clemency in its current shape and form is useless, it cost pld too much to use this heal.

Now this is really interesting. =D

I would absolutely dislike it. Which really showcases how much of a subjective issue this is.

[Nedkel]

Now this is really interesting. =D

I would absolutely dislike it. Which really showcases how much of a subjective issue this is.

Think about it that way.
You barely ever going to use clemency because it does not heal that much, cost precious mp and gcd outside of requitecast. With requietcast buff you lose a ton of dps and your heal is not something you need healers have enough healing and you just confuse them when using clemency and bring chaos to their rotation, since if they overheal you it will affect group dps even further.
On the other hand intervention is ogcd that is used often by PLD in ot and extra heal would not hurt anyone.

[JoHighnes]

Think about it that way.
You barely ever going to use clemency because it does not heal that much, cost precious mp and gcd outside of requitecast. With requietcast buff you lose a ton of dps and your heal is not something you need healers have enough healing and you just confuse them when using clemency and bring chaos to their rotation, since if they overheal you it will affect group dps even further.
On the other hand intervention is ogcd that is used often by PLD in ot and extra heal would not hurt anyone.

The heal from clemency is big enough outside req, although it is amazing in it. It is useful for pulling global aggro (aggro stance + clemency is a great "ATTACK ME EVERYONE", so if healers complain about a PLD using it at high health, the reason is probably this), for emergency healing, not to mention making PLD the only job left for soloing content (I used to solo stuff on WAR, but now PLD is the one remaining king of solo).

The main issues I do have with clemency is how it breaks melee combos as well as the 80% mana requirement on req, which severely limits how flexible you can be with clemency. It should be punishing enough to lose some GCDs and Holy Spirits.

Moving it to intervention would require at least one person in your party being alive (no last-man-standing heroics or solo power), require either target swapping or a weaving macro for self heals, and share cooldown (resource, but it is in effect a CD with two changes, 50 cost, 100 gauge max) with sheltron. It would still be useful since you would automatically top up the other tank before a tankbuster, making things more relaxed for the healers, and feel more impactful than the negligible 10% reduction. All in all I would consider it a downgrade, mainly for the lower flexibility, but with the heal being on one button (like TBN), and not a setup where several skills need to be in perfect alignment, it would still work out way better than the current NF for war.

[whiskeybravo]

Bruh, I thought you were leaving.

I'll agree it somewhat makes sense for PvP, ofc I never played PvP but I could see how you might not always have an ally target in range to cast it on yourself.

Outside of that, WAR doesn't need NF for solo survivability. In party play it's simply an extra button push/mouse click or maybe not even that.. What's the big deal? Are aesthetics really that important? "I need to be able to heal myself for massive amounts even though these overworld mobs are barely doing damage to me. WARR RAWWRR"

There's a few people that have mentioned they find it annoying but absolutely no one has been as persistent in complaining about it. I'd be a nice QoL, sure, but it's not hurting WAR at all as it is (except perhaps in PvP but I can't really comment on that).

It's that NF has an emergency potential far greater than anything other tanks have, that only asks you to not be the last man standing, which, let's be honest, won't change the outcome very much if RI can't keep you alive long enough. So, saying that Warrior was heavily hit in the surviving department is a big stretch.

I can confirm a few situations where this has come up in dungeons.. But in anything like a raid it's hard to say it would've made any difference. Either way it's a outlier scenario.

[Argyle_Darkheart]

That's not what [Nascent Flash] is for though. You're thinking of it like a cooldown, it isn't, it's half a cooldown. It's the half of tbn that you can target other players with, the half of heart of stone. It's not clemency, it's intervention.

By what authority can you claim that though? As designed, Nascent Flash functions as both a personal cooldown and an off-tank support cooldown. Comparing it to the other off-tank support cooldowns is misguided because it's not like the other off-tank support cooldowns.

You're not meant to have another free cooldown choice.

Again, by what authority can you claim that? The fact of the matter is that WAR has a cooldown choice between Nascent Flash and Raw Intuition. Is that a problem, for some reason?

That's how we use it now, for the part that heals us but I think it would serve us right if the devs just took the self healing off it and left it as a heal and mitigation for a partner.

Why though? Nascent Flash is powerful and is one of the few remaining abilities that produces a synergy between offense and defense.

In the absence of a job balance issue, removing the self-healing component of Nascent Flash will only make WAR less interesting; I can't fathom why anyone would suggest or support such a change.

[Talam]

Good lord, if they took the self-healing off of Nascent Flash, that would be what makes me drop Warrior and pick up like Dark Knight or Paladin.

I would, full stop, gladly trade away Equilibrium if it meant Nascent Flash could be self-targeted. Or if Nascent Flash was split into Nascent Flash and Nascent Glint, with Nascent Glint being the one you cast on other people and heal with your damage, and Nascent Flash replacing Equilibrium and you heal yourself with your damage (EDIT: I understand that Nascent Flash wouldn't be able to keep a 25 second cooldown or would need the healing numbers changed). Why? Because being able to really take care of my own health and heal myself up is fun. The self-sustain aspect and the much bigger HP pool was what drew me into playing Warrior back in 2.0. Yes, 2.0, when Warrior sure as fuck wasn't meta and wouldn't be meta for a long time.

I don't care about Warrior reclaiming the throne of bestest tank ever. I just remember that the most fun I've ever had on Warrior was being in a dungeon, with the rest of the party dead, and seeing if I had the skills and gear to take down the last 15% of the boss's health on my own. And right now, I can't do that. Hell, I have to be careful doing unsync'd level 70 dungeons solo.

[whiskeybravo]

As designed, Nascent Flash functions as both a personal cooldown and an off-tank support cooldown. Comparing it to the other off-tank support cooldowns is misguided because it's not like the other off-tank support cooldowns.

It's only a personal cooldown when there's another party member available, so technically it's a support cooldown that happens to benefit the user as well. In that respect it can only be compared to other off-tank support CDs, and its function is in fact basically the same as Intervention.