Tank Balance Patch next pls? Nascent Flash Target Requirement Removed Pls

[Reynhart]

You can argue it's a waste in the ideal run where everything goes perfectly. But being dead is a dps loss way higher than the penalty you took for using IB instead of FC.

Except that I don't really think you're less sturdy than before. Now, you constantly take 20% damage, are able to reduce damage more than before with Raw Intuition (and now the longer duration for Vengeance) and recover more HP with Equilibrium+ToB. And, if you're not the last person standing, can heal much more than before since you have more powerful skill, while still taking reduced damage from your trait.

Equilibrium already existed, so that was nothing given as a compensation.

Not in Defiance nor coupled with a native damage reduction.

That does nothing when the same advantages are given to the other tanks and damage taken is increased to compensate

PLD and DRK lost their tank stance to gain the same benefit from Tank Mastery. WAR lost its tank stance for the same mastery and gain its additionnal effect on ToB, expanded to all healing actions, while having Raw Intuition uptime extremely buffed. Meaning that now, WAR is no longer the tank that get hit for more, but still the one that's healed for more. And other tanks still have no way of refilling all their HP while still doing a lot of damage at all.

Before, the only other tank that could do that in AoE situation was DRK, and it was nerfed rock bottom.

[JoHighnes]

Except that I don't really think you're less sturdy than before. Now, you constantly take 20% damage, are able to reduce damage more than before with Raw Intuition (and now the longer duration for Vengeance) and recover more HP with Equilibrium+ToB. And, if you're not the last person standing, can heal much more than before since you have more powerful skill, while still taking reduced damage from your trait.

The flat 20% given to all tanks just means they will balance the content around that, so net gain is 0. It just means non-tanks will take more damage if they become targeted. The increased 30% damage reduction duration change was made to all tanks, so it is no relative change, but a nice addition non the less. If RI was made to not share CD with NF then it would be a pretty decent skill. But right now, most of the time you gain more effective HP by using NF to heal yourself for more than the 20% damage RI would have spared you from. The reason I can think of using RI would be to make tankbusters more predictable for the healers, since they don't need to guess how hp you will recover on your own.

Not in Defiance nor coupled with a native damage reduction.

For things like Equilibrium you could swap to tank stance and use Unchained to ignore the damage penalty of the tank stance until you swapped back. A bit more messy and I admit I more than once accidentally used it for TP when I intended to self heal. So while it wasn't added it was definitely a nice QoL upgrade to always have it heal.

And, if you're not the last person standing, can heal much more than before since you have more powerful skill, while still taking reduced damage from your trait.

If you think that, you never did try IR + spamming IB. That was almost at the level of Requiescat + Clemency spam. A bit lower healing, but more damage dealt, and on a longer cooldown.
Edit: My misread. I read "now" the last person standing, instead of "not". The point still stands if the other person standing with you is not a healer. And even then it is nice to give your healer time to not care about you and just revive the rest of the party.

[Reynhart]

The flat 20% given to all tanks just means they will balance the content around that, so net gain is 0.

But for all tank, their tank stance was just moved to a trait. They didn't have an additionnal effect above that, and their CD weren't changed much. Give me one PLD/DRK cd whose CD was reduced as much a Raw Intuition. What PLD and DRK gained was a drastically reduced block strength, a nerfed and not free Cover and a nerfed Dark Mind...(And a slightly stronger TBN for self, ok...)

If RI was made to not share CD with NF then it would be a pretty decent skill. But right now, most of the time you gain more effective HP by using NF to heal yourself for more than the 20% damage RI would have spared you from.

Do you really, if you don't have your spam window available ?

For things like Equilibrium you could swap to tank stance and use Unchained to ignore the damage penalty of the tank stance until you swapped back.

You'd still lose the Deliverance bonus for 10s, and locked out of Fell Cleave. I hope it wouldn't line up with a party burst window.

If you think that, you never did try IR + spamming IB.

Inner Chaos is three times as powerful as Inner Beast was, and it's a guaranteed Crit/DH, even if you don't have your 90s IR available. And if you do, Fell Cleave is still almost twice the potency of past Inner Beast. So, in those 6s, it's very easy to pack much more potency that you could in 10s before...and you don't "lose" any damage doing so.

[Shurrikhan]

WAR lost its tank stance for the same mastery and gain its additional effect on ToB, expanded to all healing actions, while having Raw Intuition uptime extremely buffed. Meaning that now, WAR is no longer the tank that get hit for more, but still the one that's healed for more. And other tanks still have no way of refilling all their HP while still doing a lot of damage at all.

1. Shelltron was also buffed and TBN, already abnormally strong, was buffed by 67%.
2. It gets healed for more for the duration of that CD alone. You know what the other tanks have? A better on-demand, a more flexible on-demand, or an oGCD heal. If you want to call ToB or Warrior's tookit as a whole overpowered, have at it, but let's not pretend that Warrior was uniquely able to hold onto the heal-efficiency advantages of its old tank stance.
3. Except via, you know, either the other oGCD heal or the means by which to take less damage in the first place. And "all"? ToB and Equilibrium are a far cry from Benediction.

Before, the only other tank that could do that in AoE situation was DRK, and it was nerfed rock bottom.

When did our focus switch to AoE situations and how was DRK nerfed to rock bottom?
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I'm not sure what narrative you're trying to push at the moment. Is it "WAR is overpowered! 3.0"? I'd have to disagree unless taken at the loosest of definitions or with a bare-knuckle focus on Holmgang or theoretical absorption/bonus-healing. Is it, hidden behind many layers of tangentials, that PLD's reliable mitigation kit is currently lacking in throughput over time? If so I could agree. GNB's? Marginally. But, honestly I can't make heads or tails of these stretches at present. I can only see that they're stretched conclusions at best, which would seem to indicate some agenda at work.

[Reynhart]

[LIST="1"]Shelltron was also buffed

In TB situation, Sheltron was nerfed since block strength have been greatly reduced. Raw Intuition is now more powerful, and available as often. (It's also free, but since the oath gauge does not have that much use, it's basically irrelevant)

If you want to call ToB or Warrior's tookit as a whole overpowered, have at it

I don't, but it's a fact that its tank stance removal was treated better than PLD's.

And "all"? ToB and Equilibrium are a far cry from Benediction.

ToB + Equilibrium + NF and Inner Chaos can heal you to full during 6s. It has its drawback of requiring a party member, but it's still something only WAR can do, and with very short anticipation.

I'm not sure what narrative you're trying to push at the moment. Is it "WAR is overpowered! 3.0"?

No, it's not. It's that NF has an emergency potential far greater than anything other tanks have, that only asks you to not be the last man standing, which, let's be honest, won't change the outcome very much if RI can't keep you alive long enough. So, saying that Warrior was heavily hit in the surviving department is a big stretch. On top of that, NF is the only CD that covers both tank at the same time. Sure TBN is really powerful, but if you face a double TB, you can still only use it on one person; Technically, PLD could use both Sheltron and Intervention, but it suddenly requires a full oath gauge, thus, a far longer "CD" than NF, especially if the fight doesn't allow 100% uptime.

[Shurrikhan]

ToB + Equilibrium + NF and Inner Chaos can heal you to full during 6s. It has its drawback of requiring a party member, but it's still something only WAR can do, and with very short anticipation.

Right, I only need to hold my secondary TB CD, my on-demand, my bonus CD, and my dps CD for this period where I'm dropped to nearly zero HP.

Doesn't this point out an issue with WAR burst far more than it does with NF itself. If by the sheer concentration of their burst, a Bloodbath is now a Benediction, how do you imagine that carries over to the feeling of gameplay between bursts? Hint: Your actions kinda feel like white damage...

You've got 4 parts in use there. You blame 1 of them for the result despite it being relatively balanced against RI outside of IC/IR. So, where's the real issue?