SMN 5.1 Job adjustments

[Pibly123]

Are you all ignoring what a mess summoner is below 80? The role quests are all tuned to the tank pet who no longer tanks. The summoners dps is embarrassingly low, to the point that groups do not want summoners and summoners cannot complete msq’s that every other class has no problem with.

Summoner has always been my favorite class but returning to the class at early levels is heartbreaking. Please consider the class prior to 80.

[Nemekh]

Things at lower levels can definitely be looked at more closely for sure, but a lot of these problems when people talk about quests being too hard - the players have been seriously under-geared. Even when they were current many quests were done without Titan having to tank for us, but with Ifrit or Garuda egi with more level and content appropriate gear. Our lower level dps has changed a lot, and in some regards is actually higher. There's a lot of moving parts with all the potency + mechanical changes and it all depends on where in the levelling process you look at.

The biggest loss, however, remains the gutting of Egi damage, which at lower levels they form a much higher % of total damage. Cripple them and yes it really does hurt lower levels more.

[Gemina]

So basically it's assumption way of combing, but in the devs idea..no such thing.

A combo as I have always understood it is a sequence of skills wherein the benefit of the sequential skill is dependent on the previous. In fighting games for instance, the benefit would be an unblockable series of attacks. "Sequential" being the keyword there as the skills would always have to follow one after the other. In FFXIV, I believe the term "skillchains" is widely accepted for how the combo system works.

However, if we were to declassify a sequence of skills such as Horoscope>>Aspecected Helios>>GCD>>GCD>>Horoscope into what I would probably call "broken combos" (the benefit of the sequential skill can take place after other skills are used), then even the technical combos the game uses can be considered broken as ogcds are often weaved between them.

IOW... combo schmombo ;p

[Nemekh]

Preliminary notes are VERY promising. Working on a news update for akhmorning to discuss the changes. Watch this space!

[ChaoticCrimson]

I'm actually rather pleased that the suggestion I made around the time the expansion dropped to reduce the cooldown timer of the Trances by at least five seconds was actually put into effect. Having Tri-Disaster refresh a few seconds earlier should alleviate quite a bit of the issues as far as keeping DoTs up in line with our rotation. DoT potencies are also slightly increased, which along with a 300 potency hit when Tri-D lands could maybe be enough to offset the loss of Ruination, but then number-crunching isn't my specialty so I couldn't say for sure.

The potency increases on Ifrit will hopefully add up as well, but time will tell. It will be interesting working with the new Egi Assaults, to say the least. I think in the long run it'll help clean things up, but since the EAs are on GCD I imagine you really only need to worry about using one of them as far as Ifrit is concerned, since the potency of both attacks seems to be the same. The only difference is Flaming Crush being an AoE, but that shouldn't matter since we have Garuda who's presumably still the better AoE pet option. That said, Garuda lost a bit of potency with it's main Wind Blade attack, but also gained considerably more potency for her other attacks. Titan got some buffs to potencies and its shield, but I still see his use being rather situational.

I found it odd they'd reduce Painflare's potency at first until I read further and found that new trait to increase Outburst's potency. Interesting, to say the least. The immediate Wyrmwaves upon summoning Bahamut is actually something that should be very helpful. I hope this means he'll be overall more responsive, but again time will tell. Another nice touch is being able to see your pet on the party list again, though it is still untargetable. Losing the pet is a lot more rare these days, but it's still good to be able to better keep track that its still out and about without having to look around the battlefield for it. I actually had no idea Phoenix could be targeted at all until I saw these patch notes, which is an oddity imo but I suppose it'll be moot after the patch. Everlasting Flight gets a one second extension as well, if you care about that for some reason.

I still don't want to jump to conclusions before I can actually try things out. Even so, I think these notes are overall a step in the right direction.

[Nemekh]

5.10 Summoner Preliminary Patch Notes News Update

[Gallus]

Why do they keep doing the same with SMN over and over again? Every freaking expansion they release a broken class and then halfway through they either make it very strong or downright overpowered.

Let's just forget the numbers for a moment though.

Why on freaking earth does SMN start as a convoluted unedible mess mechanically speaking and ends up super simplified and smoother later on EVERY TIME.

Who is in charge of this class? Because they're tripping on the same stone repeatedly.

[Nemekh]

I also tire of the rework rebalance yoyoing, but for now, I am very content with the proposed changes.

Most of what I outlined as problematic in my 5.0 review video has been resolved, addressed or tweaked leaving a fraction of the original list.

[AdamWarlocke]

All I am getting is that SE still doesn't know how to make a PET USING CLASS work right. Some of the changes are nice, some of the nerfs aren't. Whoever is in charge of "fixing" the summoner should REALLY take a good, long look at how other MMO's balance their pet-using classes.

Since their "main" competition out here in the West is WoW - then they should extrapolate from how Blizzard built their pet classes and see what they can bring to the table. All they're effing doing is make changes for the END-GAME party setup and not so much on solo-play and leveling. There's not much variation and the "most useful" at "end game" comes down to Garuda (for standard AOE) and Ifrit (as Titan is only situational - at least to me).

I still hate the fact that there's zero versatility when it comes to a pet being unique - all 3 normal ones are DPS, not a single Tank/Healer/DPS/Crowd Control difference between the 3 of them before pulling out Bahamut. Where the EF is the "support" and utility summoners bring? I feel that the way SE is trying to "appeal" to the OCD-DPS-crowd that want fewer buttons to push and are only concerned about damage numbers, they completely got rid of what a summoner is at its core: using pets to combine with their attacks depending on which summon is out strategically.

When a Red Mage can kite and kill faster than you on the field WITHOUT a pet, then you KNOW something is wrong as summoners are basically below now in damage - especially in fights where you need to keep moving. There's also the fact a Red Mage can actually HEAL better as a dps caster thanks to dual cast, it makes physick a joke since it doesn't scale the same way a scholar's physick does. Hell, a scholar's pet "EOS" (not counting Selene since they basically nerfed her six feet under in versatility) is even more useful as an actual pet than all 3 of the summoner's pets (barring Bahamut/Phoenix) combined. As it is - at least to me - they've been moving away from the actual definition of what a summoner is in-game with every "fix".

Whatever it is now in the game that calls itself a "summoner", isn't one.

[Flana]

Free mobility is ALWAYS nice and its great that bahamut will bank a wyrmwave now, and Tri-Disaster having 300 potency is a buff on single targets iirc. But for Egi Assaults...


You're basically spending 4 gcds doing nothing in the opener now (those were already instant cast because DWT) and 150 extra pet potency is less impressive in action than on paper for giving up a Ruin 3 to use. Yeah you can stack Ruin IV procs now but you barely need them for anything without weaving Egi Assaults so they're just... there. It's better than not having them but it's still comes off as kinda odd.


Plus these being on the gcd is going to create knock-on effects down the line because they're now twice as slow to dump. 2 of the current savage fights have enough downtime that you have to demi-summon immediately after the boss returns, but you're just going to be stuck sitting on these new egi assaults anyways. They're still dead skills 1/3rd of the time because demi-summons.


Summoner AoE also got a stealth hit since I doubt Tri-Disaster is 300 potency no fall-off AoE, so thats a lot of potency Outburst is losing over dungeon runs. But I could be wrong, and I'll gladly take a flat 300 potency aoe.

These really don't do anything to fix the pet mechanicss fighting against each other for attention, the ghosting, or the dumb ai. I am not impressed.