SMN 5.1 Job adjustments

**Haxaan** · 10-22-2019 03:07 AM

It'll beinteresting to see how these changes actually feel. I do agree with Rika on a lot of her points though and feel like this is just a band-aid to cover up a biiger underlying issue. Summoner since it's inception this XIV has been a bit wonky, never quite feeling right. Yes it's been fun to play but it has never really given us that "Summoner" feeling properly. With the implimentation of Demi Primals it feels like we are beginning to get that feeling, however slowly. I feel like the Demi Primal rotations are going to become the new staple of the SMN rotation with egi's playing less of an upfront roll and dots and procs being there to fill the gaps between phases. I love Summoner and I am very interested to see where it goes, but for now I await the 5.1 changes to see if it makes the job feel better. The current SMN model, while fun, feels so frantic and I hope this helps to tone that down a bit.

**dinnertime** · 10-22-2019 03:26 AM

Originally Posted by Rika007

But it still doesn't address the multitude of complaints that so many of us has had.

It would be nice if they gradually fix those things in the new patches but knowing how they handled things before, I think we'll have to wait until the next expansion for them to fix the 'major' issues.

Honestly SMN never needed a rework to begin with, just simple QoLs like the Bane rework and instant-applying DoTs. They should've worked on the issues like the pet response and Demi behavior that's been complained about for 2 years. I really hope they revert some things back like what they did to bowmage, especially Aetherflow.

**Nemekh** · 10-22-2019 08:16 AM

EAs being moved to the GCD was one of our expected changes over at The Balance. The EAs will be replacing other GCDs in the rotation while being 4 cpm/min less. It achieves their intended goal of reducing how busy the job presently is. It's certainly a boon for higher ping players who do not have to clip as severely. Things are being addressed one step at a time.

**Gemina** · 10-23-2019 03:54 AM

Pet abilities for both SMN and SCH never should have been removed from the pet hotbar. Now we likely have to wait until next xpac for them to be put back there.

I've only just recently starting messing around with my SMN and it didn't take long for ghosting and delayed actions from pets to infuriate me. Demi summons following me around is another biggie that just kills optimization potential for SMN. Makes me wonder how high a skilled SMN could push their DPS without these issues.

**Rika007** · 10-23-2019 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by Gemina

Pet abilities for both SMN and SCH never should have been removed from the pet hotbar. Now we likely have to wait until next xpac for them to be put back there.

I've only just recently starting messing around with my SMN and it didn't take long for ghosting and delayed actions from pets to infuriate me. Demi summons following me around is another biggie that just kills optimization potential for SMN. Makes me wonder how high a skilled SMN could push their DPS without these issues.

Honestly the Demi's feel even worse to me this expansion even though they technically were never on the petbar at all. At least with Bahamut last expansion as long as I didn't move till after the first akh-morn I was able to almost time all my weaves in a way that basically forced him to stay in place as long as I didn't move to far. But now without the oGCD weaving within the Demi phases and the need to do the full animation when they enter I feel like I have no control over the summon at all.

**Kiteless** · 10-23-2019 02:34 PM

At this point, summons are basically glorified spell animations. It wouldn't be unreasonable to just remove their physical placement entirely, and have them just float around like persistent spell effects.

**KineticSoul** · 10-23-2019 05:54 PM

I will miss throwing Egi Assaults into combos, however I will enjoy having something to do beside spam Ruin during CDs.
I really thought Ruination was a fun combo with Dreadwyrm to burst DPS, although the effect itself was somewhat mediocre. Now that it's gone though and Tri has its own damage, I'll probably use it a lot more.
I love the changes to Bane and shorter cooldowns sound fun. So overall, I like these changes.

If anything I just feel like they're still completely missing what makes a fun Summoner class. I continue to maintain FFXI did it malms better... But I still like this SMN for what it is.

NB4 "play FFXI then!" I do. Sometimes.

**Kiteless** · 10-24-2019 11:05 AM

So, the idea of 'combos' brings up the idea of working in tandem with summons, and the first thing that came to mind for me was the gimmicky puppet fighters common in Arcsys fighting games. Something like Guilty Gear's Zato 1/Eddie or Blazblue's Clover. Now, this is all very reaching and pulled out of my ass as a concept, but whatever.

So, in the mentioned Arcsys characters, these puppet characters function off of a mechanic collequially known as 'negative edge.' Basically, these puppet characters functioned as two entities at once, the primary character and their puppet. When you pressed a button, the character used a move. When you released the button, the puppet would perform a move. The end result being that both pressing and releasing the button give you different functions for your character.

Now, FFXIV obviously wouldn't be able to function based on holding and releasing the buttons. But the core concept itself could bear fruit for the Summoner itself. Egi Assault oGCD skills could be empowered and consolidated with some SMN core GCD skills. When the SMN uses a GCD, it changes into the egi assault oGCD. Using the corresponding oGCD 'releases' the skill, returning it to its original state. Ideally speaking, every GCD function should be a skill the Summoner itself uses, and every oGCD belonging to the summon.

But hey, I'm just spitballing. No matter how they do it, I just want SMN to be fun and viable. End of the day, there are two key factors I want to take priority:

1. Pressing lots of buttons feels nice, I always want to be doing something, and I enjoy feeling like I'm pressing the most buttons in the room. However, each of those button presses needs to feel meaningful in its functionality, rather than just busywork (which the current egi-assaults are)
2. Priority-based skill usage instead of a more rigid rotation makes optimal play and decision making more rewarding.

I'd also appreciate big badass celestial creatures blasting my enemies into the aether in big badass fashion, but I'd appreciate making the class worth playing at all first.

**Osmond** · 10-24-2019 11:59 AM

.....I don't remember SMN ever doing combos..unless they want MNK's combo system I mean. Stormblood's SMN was more streamlined, easy to understand your rotation, yet punishing if you are ko'd. Shadowbringers pre-SMN is very clunky, the rotation is questionable. So the "combos" by double weaving egi assaults during your "rotation" isn't the best to play the job to the point most of SMN players don't even like it. Even changing E.Assaults to a oGCD spell with the same cast time with ruin 2/3 will give you less buttons to do, but it still needs work to make it more enjoyable to play. Energy drain/siphon not satisfying to use. I still want Demi-bahamut to spawn during DWT the way that Demi-phoenix to spawn during FWT.

**Shurrikhan** · 10-24-2019 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Osmond

.....I don't remember SMN ever doing combos..unless they want MNK's combo system I mean.

Combos do not have to be a rigid sequence of GCD skills...

Comboing between caster and pet, as in having synergetic effects or unlocks between pet actions and caster actions, is still comboing.

Thread: SMN 5.1 Job adjustments

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