Square Enix, please think about both Casual AND Hardcore crafters..

[DrWho2010]

well cookies and liam might like this tidbit from dengeki:

[Ishgard restoration Dengeki questions]

Q. What is the ranking system for the restoration going to be like?

Y: The ranking will start in 5.2 and it announces who the top contribuers are and just like how the deep dungeon ranking system has "dot pictures for each job", the artits drew the gatherers and crafters with dots. There are also ranking rewards, so i'd like those who are proud to be crafters and gatherers to aim for the top.

Q. You said the Ishgard restoration begins in patch 5.11, but is the crafter and gatherer rework in 5.1?

Y: The rework is split into 2. One will be in patch 5.1 and the other will be in patch 5.2. 5.1 will introduce some UI improvements but some of the features will only work after 5.2. Most of the current actions are no longer usable and crossed out, so it has quite an impact. The actions with tier 2~3 will be merged and Biergot's action will have an 100% success rate.

Q. From what i've heard so far, it seems like the "high end recipes" won't be craftable with macros

Y: The normal recipes will be craftable if you set them up properly, but the difficult recipes will require you to use the actions with procs properly when they show up and we'd like to design it where you have to actually observe the current situation.

Q. The current crafting system allows you to ignore HQ mats and use macros to craft HQ items.

Y: I thought that part was broken, so DoL/DoH will have overall adjustments. It will change entirely and new crafters and gatherers can instantly understand what to do and what does what.

[Kabooa]

So, I'm looking at this and need to weigh in.

The action adjustments effectively get rid of a step.

You -always- use Steady Hand. You always use it if the action isn't 100% success rate. That's a period, end of story. The removal of Steady Hand and the increase of most Touch and Synthesis actions to 100% is a lateral change. It doesn't affect much, and some outliers received CP cost increases.

The big nerf to take into account is Great Strides - An additive 100% increase is a -significant nerf-. Instead of doubling up all your previous effects, you see a significant decrease the further along you are.

If you open a craft now and do a Great Strides Byregot, you can expect the final result to be lower by about 25-33% come patch day. This doesn't mean much now, but if there are exorbitant quality requirements moving forward, then hitting HQ is a matter of attrition or utilizing HQ materials.

Ingenuity is another...nerf? It depends on what the increase of efficiency is compared to the increase prior to decreasing recipe level. At best it's a lateral shift, at worse it is still a significant nerf.

Stroke of Genius is now a specialist only increase (Specialization Stones give +15 cp).

Giving Specialists an effective free stalling ability gives them a pretty significant edge.

Whether or not these are good shifts depends how they change their recipe scaling. A lot of unneeded junk got cleared out, a lot of stalling and recovery capability got removed. Delicate Synthesis was potentially nerfed indirectly with the nerf to Ingenuity, and the improvement of all synthesis and touch success rates.

[NanaWiloh]

Now now not all trolls are bad. There are trolls like me who troll to break the tension in a thread. But crafting is my end game so no trolling from me.

[CookiesNCreams]

Now now not all trolls are bad. There are trolls like me who troll to break the tension in a thread. But crafting is my end game so no trolling from me.

lol Well, it’s pretty obvious who is just here to troll and who’s here for an actual conversation. :P Anyways, I really hope endgame recipes are actually challenging somehow. If they aren’t, I really don’t know what to say.

[CookiesNCreams]

So, I'm looking at this and need to weigh in.

The action adjustments effectively get rid of a step.

You -always- use Steady Hand. You always use it if the action isn't 100% success rate. That's a period, end of story. The removal of Steady Hand and the increase of most Touch and Synthesis actions to 100% is a lateral change. It doesn't affect much, and some outliers received CP cost increases.

The big nerf to take into account is Great Strides - An additive 100% increase is a -significant nerf-. Instead of doubling up all your previous effects, you see a significant decrease the further along you are.

If you open a craft now and do a Great Strides Byregot, you can expect the final result to be lower by about 25-33% come patch day. This doesn't mean much now, but if there are exorbitant quality requirements moving forward, then hitting HQ is a matter of attrition or utilizing HQ materials.

Ingenuity is another...nerf? It depends on what the increase of efficiency is compared to the increase prior to decreasing recipe level. At best it's a lateral shift, at worse it is still a significant nerf.

Stroke of Genius is now a specialist only increase (Specialization Stones give +15 cp).

Giving Specialists an effective free stalling ability gives them a pretty significant edge.

Whether or not these are good shifts depends how they change their recipe scaling. A lot of unneeded junk got cleared out, a lot of stalling and recovery capability got removed. Delicate Synthesis was potentially nerfed indirectly with the nerf to Ingenuity, and the improvement of all synthesis and touch success rates.

If delicate synthesis is at least nerfed, that’s good enough for me I guess.

[XenabelleS]

Soo, yeah, your forum name and in-game name would lead anyone to believe that is a troll account, and that’s not even touching on the fact you just had to post that right after patch notes. You also made it on Oct 2019.



Well, the more awareness this thread brings, the more unhappy it makes some folks just seeing it, so it’s really not a big deal. The new changes make it to where there isn’t even an ounce of skill. And endgame recipes have no hope of being difficult either. It honestly just makes me scratch my head at why they even allowed this. Still though, I’m glad you will be able to enjoy the changes. Just makes me surprised there is not an ounce of skill....I was hoping they’d remove RNG and somehow make it skill based.

What "skill" has there ever been in crafting? As long as there have been macros and rotations and requirements, there was never much "skill" beyond "have enough CP and follow this rotation". You could argue that skill only came in when you didn't have enough CP to macro and so you needed to figure out the functional parts of the macros to be able to do with less. That's how I've always had to play. Until this xpac I never had the CP to macro anything so I've always taught myself the rotations. I'm close to hitting 80 finally but now this patch will change everything.

I think the net impact of removing RNG and increasing success rates is that every craft is going to have a solveable combination of abilities with a certain CP cost that one needs to meet. Unless the RNG moves to a "you need to gain the CP with Tricks/push quality based on condition" to the point where HQ or not depends on procs, I don't know if that's "better".

But it's just there never has been much "skill" in getting geared enough and using macros.

[CookiesNCreams]

What "skill" has there ever been in crafting? As long as there have been macros and rotations and requirements, there was never much "skill" beyond "have enough CP and follow this rotation". You could argue that skill only came in when you didn't have enough CP to macro and so you needed to figure out the functional parts of the macros to be able to do with less. That's how I've always had to play. Until this xpac I never had the CP to macro anything so I've always taught myself the rotations. I'm close to hitting 80 finally but now this patch will change everything.

I think the net impact of removing RNG and increasing success rates is that every craft is going to have a solveable combination of abilities with a certain CP cost that one needs to meet. Unless the RNG moves to a "you need to gain the CP with Tricks/push quality based on condition" to the point where HQ or not depends on procs, I don't know if that's "better".

But it's just there never has been much "skill" in getting geared enough and using macros.

I’m not arguing against your point though lol I agree there was no skill in crafting, that’s what I’m trying to say. But reading that Dengeki interview that DrWho posted, if endgame crafts require skills to proc....that is awesome. That, plus control requirements being higher, is awesome. It means you need to actually understand crafting to craft endgame.

I take back what I said lol, this is actually a really good thing. Thanks, Square-Enix

[Granyala]

Proc sounds interesting, lets see how it turns out.
I just hope they go the intelligence/understanding instead of the RNG/grind route.

[NanaWiloh]

I’m not arguing against your point though lol I agree there was no skill in crafting, that’s what I’m trying to say. But reading that Dengeki interview that DrWho posted, if endgame crafts require skills to proc....that is awesome. That, plus control requirements being higher, is awesome. It means you need to actually understand crafting to craft endgame.

I take back what I said lol, this is actually a really good thing. Thanks, Square-Enix

Only concern and one I have had with proc's is, you don't want it forcing you hit let's say careful synth. Proc's should only ask you to press a synth or touch action and not a specific one. If it requires a specific one..good bye rotations and hello whack a mole crafting.

I need to not post by mobile anymore. lol

[CookiesNCreams]

Wow, endgame crafting might actually be saved this time.