How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[MerlinCross]

If fight designers expect us to be "part-time tanks" in raid content (i.e. taking turns 'actively tanking' until one of four tankbusters per fight initiates a swap), then what are we doing the rest of the time? We're not positioning. We're probably not mitigating. I wonder what we're doing. Hmm. "I've finished my shift for the evening, going to clock out, good luck with tanking the rest of the fight!"

Depends on the fight. There's a couple older fights that zapped the MT and anyone who was close or required tanks to split damage with each other or party members. Personally I'd rather have more things that take into account "Hey we have 2 meaty targets" than more damage.

Because if Damage is all we really care about; ax the second tank, bring a 5th DPS, ax the double tank mechanics we currently have and give more focus on keeping the only Tank alive(Oh look maybe healers have something to do and the DPS loss can be made up by the new DPS).

Also I'll take being on the bottom of the bell curve if it meant I felt like I was doing something more than just being Blue DPS. You top raiders(riiiiiiiiight) all complained about the stance and they went "Fine, they hate it so much, removed" and we got nothing to replace it with. "Damage output standpoint" yeah as for more tanking output rather than crying about FFLogs all the time.

I don't even know what tanks want to do anymore besides out DPS MNK and BLM these days it seems. Yes, damage is the only thing that matters after a certain point so why not ask for SOMETHING ELSE? Oh wait no you'll master it and go right back to needing more damage.

So yeah, Kill off the OT position already, let those that want more damage bring the 5th DPS they always actually wanted to do since Heavensward. Besides, how many upper half of the bell curve raiders actually try to salvage it if the MT goes down? Just speeds everything up. Do it Square.

[Risvertasashi]

Because if Damage is all we really care about; ax the second tank, bring a 5th DPS, ax the double tank mechanics we currently have and give more focus on keeping the only Tank alive(Oh look maybe healers have something to do and the DPS loss can be made up by the new DPS).

-snip-

So yeah, Kill off the OT position already, let those that want more damage bring the 5th DPS they always actually wanted to do since Heavensward.

You're forgetting one crucial thing. They not only want the extreme DPS, they want to have tank queues while doing it.

[Nedkel]

Depends on the fight. There's a couple older fights that zapped the MT and anyone who was close or required tanks to split damage with each other or party members. Personally I'd rather have more things that take into account "Hey we have 2 meaty targets" than more damage.

Because if Damage is all we really care about; ax the second tank, bring a 5th DPS, ax the double tank mechanics we currently have and give more focus on keeping the only Tank alive(Oh look maybe healers have something to do and the DPS loss can be made up by the new DPS).

Also I'll take being on the bottom of the bell curve if it meant I felt like I was doing something more than just being Blue DPS. You top raiders(riiiiiiiiight) all complained about the stance and they went "Fine, they hate it so much, removed" and we got nothing to replace it with. "Damage output standpoint" yeah as for more tanking output rather than crying about FFLogs all the time.

I don't even know what tanks want to do anymore besides out DPS MNK and BLM these days it seems. Yes, damage is the only thing that matters after a certain point so why not ask for SOMETHING ELSE? Oh wait no you'll master it and go right back to needing more damage.

So yeah, Kill off the OT position already, let those that want more damage bring the 5th DPS they always actually wanted to do since Heavensward. Besides, how many upper half of the bell curve raiders actually try to salvage it if the MT goes down? Just speeds everything up. Do it Square.

We already have single tanks in alliance raids, whats your point?
And who say tanks want to outdps DPS jobs?

And YES damage is what we all care about, we literally are buying three times more expensive materia to buy 2-3% damage advantage, and barely anyone is investing in tenacity.

The difference in DPS contribution for tanks in both expansion is big enough to notice it, basically tanks are doing 15-18% less than they used to. The difference is even bigger if we shew off tanks who used tank stance instead of offensive stance. Warrior in 4.5 was doing massive damage in offensive stance in dungeons to the point where dps were not needed much, its all now gone.

[Risvertasashi]

And who say tanks want to outdps DPS jobs?

-snip-

The difference in DPS contribution for tanks in both expansion is big enough to notice it, basically tanks are doing 15-18% less than they used to. The difference is even bigger if we shew off tanks who used tank stance instead of offensive stance. Warrior in 4.5 was doing massive damage in offensive stance in dungeons to the point where dps were not needed much, its all now gone.

To answer your first question: Apparently, you are saying that.

Have you actually looked at AOE potencies?

Healers and tanks are very close what DPS can do. Some of the potencies are even exactly the same; the difference being that DPS jobs may get some oGCDs or special procs that can put them a little above what tanks and healers can do.

If you want to talk dungeons in particular - In the 90th percentile, tanks are doing very well right now.

[Xtrasweettea]

To answer your first question: Apparently, you are saying that.

Have you actually looked at AOE potencies?

Healers and tanks are very close what DPS can do. Some of the potencies are even exactly the same; the difference being that DPS jobs may get some oGCDs or special procs that can put them a little above what tanks and healers can do.

In fact, tanks do out DPS a good chunk of DPS jobs in dungeons. In the 90th percentile, tanks do very well, even beating out some DPS jobs.

Unless I am reading this chart wrong, it looks like tanks only out damage each other, SCH, and AST. GNB and WHM seem to be fighting for the top spot between Tanks and Healers. Maybe you or someone could provide me the correct instructions on how to interpret the chart.

[Mitsubashi]

Unless I am reading this chart wrong, it looks like tanks only out damage each other, SCH, and AST. GNB and WHM seem to be fighting for the top spot between Tanks and Healers. Maybe you or someone could provide me the correct instructions on how to interpret the chart.

Thanks for posting this. I'm much more into groups and dungeons than I am raiding.

For dungeons the tank DPS nerfs (relative to where they've often been over the years) matter even more than raiding. Especially using party finder - a huge number of DPS players never bother upgrading their gear past lvl 70 and either don't realise or don't care how much they are gimping the group and being carried.

[Kabooa]

Thanks for posting this. I'm much more into groups and dungeons than I am raiding.

For dungeons the tank DPS nerfs (relative to where they've often been over the years) matter even more than raiding. Especially using party finder - a huge number of DPS players never bother upgrading their gear past lvl 70 and either don't realise or don't care how much they are gimping the group and being carried.

Tome gear will take you to 80 without issue.

[NyneSwordz]

It's that bad huh? Ironic that they gave wars an aoe combo while nerfing their dls. Overpower to mythril tempest spamming also is clunky as heck. Id rather go back to spamming just overpower. Or not having an aoe combo for that matter if they could retune dps to compensate.

[BarretOblivion]

To answer your first question: Apparently, you are saying that.

Have you actually looked at AOE potencies?

Healers and tanks are very close what DPS can do. Some of the potencies are even exactly the same; the difference being that DPS jobs may get some oGCDs or special procs that can put them a little above what tanks and healers can do.

If you want to talk dungeons in particular - In the 90th percentile, tanks are doing very well right now.

Noooobody cares about dungeons. Nobody cares about AoE. We have been talking about raiding, why are you trying to change the conversation?

[WhyAmIHere]

Noooobody cares about dungeons. Nobody cares about AoE. We have been talking about raiding, why are you trying to change the conversation?

I care. How else would I get those good glam items?