Dear SE, stop homogenizing jobs

[Vulcann]

make the game much more open ended and more activities to do instead of endgame raiding and then you will have your different and interesting classes.

the problem is raiding and raiders KILL all differences in classes and they have since Everquest 1.

"what do you mean X class is more wanted on raids, i don't play X class i play Y class and my class should be just as wanted for raids" ... so thus developers basically find similar skills so both classes can be equally wanted.

[Saefinn]

make the game much more open ended and more activities to do instead of endgame raiding and then you will have your different and interesting classes.

the problem is raiding and raiders KILL all differences in classes and they have since Everquest 1.

"what do you mean X class is more wanted on raids, i don't play X class i play Y class and my class should be just as wanted for raids" ... so thus developers basically find similar skills so both classes can be equally wanted.

My experience of FFXI in Abyssea was exactly that, I stuck to my guns and refused to level the jobs people asked me to be on in PUGs and was able to give the ultimatum, it's a SCH healer or nothing.

I then managed to find a static who took me on as a main healer, despite how gimp SCH could be in that content and the only fight it was an issue for was Shinryu, which I think would have been manageable if I has certain pieces of gear.

Hence my argument: I don't mind if things aren't well balanced as long as they are balanced enough to do the content and still be enjoyable doing so. In the above example, all it needed was one tweak on SCH in FFXI and they got it at a later date.

I know raiders like to min max and like to have things fluid and well balanced, which is fine, but the only way I can think of having both is to have a raider set/mode similar to how we handle PvP balance.

[Videra]

All classes in WoW are the same.
Press 1 for filler
Press 2 to reapply dot
Press 3 to use a cooldown or "charge" skill
Press 4 for the proc

It's a literal calculator simulator game.

This is what someone who hasn't played WoW in its current state sounds like. Anyway.

The only classes that have been noticeably homogenized are the healers, and even then, Scholar and the rest are noticeably different. There's also one other significant example in Inner Release/Delirium, but that's about it. Tanks all having CDs is not homogenization.

[Reap00]

I see people post stuff like this on threads all the time, and I have to ask, what does posting a comment like this add to a conversation? Like, genuinely, what was added to the conversation that wasn't here before?

I have no intention of adding to this pointless conversation. Thanks.

[Mistyregions]

make the game much more open ended and more activities to do instead of endgame raiding and then you will have your different and interesting classes.

the problem is raiding and raiders KILL all differences in classes and they have since Everquest 1.

"what do you mean X class is more wanted on raids, i don't play X class i play Y class and my class should be just as wanted for raids" ... so thus developers basically find similar skills so both classes can be equally wanted.

This excuse held up in older MMOs when you only had one character and one job, now you have a multiple job character. They need to make one raid tier cater to some jobs and the next cater to the others. If you dont wanna switch jobs, then you are entitled.

[RoyalBeef]

the problem is raiding and raiders KILL all differences in classes and they have since Everquest 1.

"what do you mean X class is more wanted on raids, i don't play X class i play Y class and my class should be just as wanted for raids"

Yeah no, EQ 1 raids were basically giant 72 person zergs you did with your guild, no one was left behind, not even rangers during classic which was probably the weakest class in any MMO ever lol. Shit only hit the fan when entitled casuals started complaining bc they couldn't gather the force needed for raiding, so devs decide cut the raid size down. Once that happens, of course you have to pick by what classes are most effective. It's a problem that casuals introduced because they still wanted to raid without having to make more than 7 friends lol.

[Mistyregions]

Perhaps the strength adaptation could mostly be focused on different jobs within the same class structure, so no strength comparisons across melee and casters, but just within the melees, for instance.
This allows you to add variety to both inter-job and inter-class. The jobs will be different in how they adapt to each specific boss, and the classes will be outright different in how they handle certain mechanics of the raid.

That could work, it would be almost recon bard etc. You would have to build a raid around that.

[YojimboM]

This is what someone who hasn't played WoW in its current state sounds like. Anyway.

The only classes that have been noticeably homogenized are the healers, and even then, Scholar and the rest are noticeably different. There's also one other significant example in Inner Release/Delirium, but that's about it. Tanks all having CDs is not homogenization.

Berserk/FoF were the same thing for WAR and PLD forever. Inner Release, Delirium, AND Requiescat are all the same thing. Press buff, press the same skill on repeat until it ends. GNB is the only tank with something unique to it now in the half GCDs, but even then it's still "put up a buff and do stuff before it runs out", just like the other three.

Healers are all identical in terms of DPS rotations. Luckily the gimmicks remain fairly unique even though they arrive at the same place in terms of healing.

[Dzian]

This excuse held up in older MMOs when you only had one character and one job, now you have a multiple job character. They need to make one raid tier cater to some jobs and the next cater to the others. If you dont wanna switch jobs, then you are entitled.

Nah what they need is more diverse approaches to encounters than simply whack it till it's dead.

Create actual options for groups to handle things based on there set ups.

Oh hey theres adds spawning. Off tank go grab them..

Only running 1 tank. WellWe got a blm let's sleep them ..
Oh we dont have a blm but we do have a smn let's bind them in place or have a titan egi hold them..

Probably not the best example but give groups options and different ways of dealing with things rather than just round it all up and whack it till it's dead....

[RoyalBeef]

Nah what they need is more diverse approaches to encounters than simply whack it till it's dead.

Create actual options for groups to handle things based on there set ups.

Oh hey theres adds spawning. Off tank go grab them..

Only running 1 tank. WellWe got a blm let's sleep them ..
Oh we dont have a blm but we do have a smn let's bind them in place or have a titan egi hold them..

Probably not the best example but give groups options and different ways of dealing with things rather than just round it all up and whack it till it's dead....

That will still boil down to which strat is more effective... usually that would be sleeping the adds and still nuking the boss, so the meta would be dropping 2nd tank and getting a BLM instead ^^ You can twist it was you want, having 18 or so jobs and only 8 spots to fill, some people will be left behind no matter what.