New Mentor requirements

[HyperiusUltima]

To be honest I think that the problem you're describing has to do with perception from the new player and thoroughness from the mentor. It's a two-way street. As a mentor, you need to be able to put it in layman's terms at times since some people may not know what DWT means, even though it means Dreadwyrm Trance. The same goes for explaining rotations. Generally what the sprout needs to do is try it out and work on muscle memory from there.

NN exists because FF has a steep learning curve for a new player -- both for someone who has played 10 different MMOs in the past 20 years as I have, and someone new to the genre. It is very easy for someone without access to mentoring from a friend or from a guildmate to miss a piece of that learning (if they're good enough at other things they will just soldier through, maybe looking a little less skilled to those around them) (if they don't have enough other skill, they may decide FF is too hard and give up). NN was created as a safe place (beyond friends or guild) for people to get questions answered, help, and maybe even mentoring on their journey through that learning curve. These toxic behaviors negate the basic purpose of NN.

So, let me go down the list here of what you're describing as 'toxic' behaviors:

1) Elite Players? To be honest, I've stopped using the term 'elite' since a lot of people love to label raiders as such if they are outside of doing Extremes or even raids on Normal Mode. Let's also be fair: After the Expansion launch and you reach the end-game, you have to think on what you're going to do next; some people have already gotten everything to 80, so they strive for harder things. There really isn't much else after you complete the story until NG+ arrives in 5.1.

2) If they're being outspoken against new players for not doing as well as Mentors, then it serves for them to be reported for harassment, since this does not follow what a Mentor is supposed to be if the harassment is extensive.

3) I myself answer this in regards to end-game sometimes, but what most people assume is that they're 80 already if they're asking about rotation; on the other hand though, it falls to the Mentor to be thorough in regards to helping another learn.

[Kaiserdrache]

The whole mentor system here is just ridiculous as same as much meaningless crap with absolutely no weight behind it.

All it does say about a player is, that he/she has eventually played the game more than you, but absolutely nothing at all about the competence of a player in general.
One player can have like 5k commendations and be at the same time a total tank noob, because that player plays tank eventually only for story, but otherwise never plays them and grinded like 95% of that sum with a Healer MC >_>

Changin the crown to a Water Can will change NOTHING, so stop this BS, all it will change is that people will change to the next crown that comes close to it, the Sword Crown, it won't change the mentality of people, players don't become different only because SE changed an Icon, that's laughable. Instead of changing the crown to the likings of a minority should SE rather simply add a new Icon, which clearly shows others, that the person using it is helpful and actually wants to answer questions, something simple and not prestigious looking, like for example a classic information l-Icon that show people, ah this player is willing to answer my questions, he/she's like a walking information point.

This way both sides are happy, those that want to have just some kind of prestige icon as sign of being a FF14 veteran that literally fulfills all mentor requirements.
And those, who want to help new players and want them to recognize you too as Mentors helping them out


Howewer the way how this game handles commendations is absolutely terrible and counterproductive.
Commendations should give absolutely NO REWARDS, because the moment any rewards a part of the system, do people freak out, become corrupt and try just to manipulate and abuse the system whereever whenever possible just to get quicker the rewards.
When rewards are linked to the system, people care lesser about helping others and more about attention whoring, just so they might get eventually more commendations later, not to mention anyways that people begin also just to give commendations careless, just to get reward by a bigger exp boost every week, not caring or looking for it if the commended players were actually skillful, but most of the times given to people, just because we like the name or look of a character.
Something so distracted like this shouldn't decide over it, if players can become Mentors


A true Mentor System would require of a person to do something, that normal players would never think about doing at free will, if they wouldn't intend on helping others later, requirements like:

- Have done every Dungeon up to the current point at Minimum ILvl Requirement more than 50 times
- Have done every Raid up to current point at Minimum I Lvl Requirement more than 50 times
- Have done every Big Raid up to current point at Minimum ILvl Requirement more than 50 times
- Participated in more than 50 PvP Battles
- Leveled All Classes to 80, including crafters n collectors, not just 1 per Role, ALL, how should you be competent as Mentor, if you can't answer a question, because you played something in the game never?
- Have beaten all Epic Trials n Raid Versions at Minimum I Lvl Requirement at least 10 times up to the current point of the game.
- Crafted at least 1 legendary Weapon of each generation up to the current point of existance
- Reached Eureka Level 40 Plus and fully explore Hydatos
- Reached Palace of the Dead Level 100 and Heaves on High Level 100 SOLO
- Breed a Rank 9 Chocobo in Gold Saucer and participate in at least 50 Vermillion Matches against other Players


Becoming a Mentor should be a commitment, something that requires of a player truly effort, skill and knowledge in all parts n segments of the game, without being dependend on the mood and liking of random other players

[Bewhatever]

To be honest I think that the problem you're describing has to do with perception from the new player and thoroughness from the mentor. It's a two-way street. As a mentor, you need to be able to put it in layman's terms at times since some people may not know what DWT means, even though it means Dreadwyrm Trance. The same goes for explaining rotations. Generally what the sprout needs to do is try it out and work on muscle memory from there.



So, let me go down the list here of what you're describing as 'toxic' behaviors:

1) Elite Players? To be honest, I've stopped using the term 'elite' since a lot of people love to label raiders as such if they are outside of doing Extremes or even raids on Normal Mode. Let's also be fair: After the Expansion launch and you reach the end-game, you have to think on what you're going to do next; some people have already gotten everything to 80, so they strive for harder things. There really isn't much else after you complete the story until NG+ arrives in 5.1.

2) If they're being outspoken against new players for not doing as well as Mentors, then it serves for them to be reported for harassment, since this does not follow what a Mentor is supposed to be if the harassment is extensive.

3) I myself answer this in regards to end-game sometimes, but what most people assume is that they're 80 already if they're asking about rotation; on the other hand though, it falls to the Mentor to be thorough in regards to helping another learn.

There's nothing toxic about being an elite (or high skill, high experience, routinely does top end content) player.

There is also nothing toxic about giving an endgame answer to an endgame question. Obviously if a player is just beginning to transition to endgame they will need things spelled out, and might need help diagnosing the skill or two they accidentally missed along the way.

My comment was about the AND of three things: an elite player AND tearing down people without similar mastery AND discussing every topic in the endgame context rather than in a level appropriate way.

Will work on clarity in my posts...

[HyperiusUltima]

A true Mentor System would require of a person to do something, that normal players would never think about doing at free will, if they wouldn't intend on helping others later, requirements like:

- Have done every Dungeon up to the current point at Minimum ILvl Requirement more than 50 times
- Have done every Raid up to current point at Minimum I Lvl Requirement more than 50 times
- Have done every Big Raid up to current point at Minimum ILvl Requirement more than 50 times
- Participated in more than 50 PvP Battles
- Leveled All Classes to 80, including crafters n collectors, not just 1 per Role, ALL, how should you be competent as Mentor, if you can't answer a question, because you played something in the game never?
- Have beaten all Epic Trials n Raid Versions at Minimum I Lvl Requirement at least 10 times up to the current point of the game.
- Crafted at least 1 legendary Weapon of each generation up to the current point of existance
- Reached Eureka Level 40 Plus and fully explore Hydatos
- Reached Palace of the Dead Level 100 and Heaves on High Level 100 SOLO
- Breed a Rank 9 Chocobo in Gold Saucer and participate in at least 50 Vermillion Matches against other Players


Becoming a Mentor should be a commitment, something that requires of a player truly effort, skill and knowledge in all parts n segments of the game, without being dependend on the mood and liking of random other players

I'm sorry, but you're being WAAAAY too restrictive with just Mentor requirements. Doing something like that is more of a crown than anything. To be real with you, you shouldn't have to force people to become an Eorzeapedia just because Mentorship should be more restrictive; I want to say that the way Mentorship is currently separated by Trade Mentoros and Combat Mentors is fine. It allows diversity in the Mentor system, regardless of whether you want a Crafter or not instead of putting it under one giant banner that more or less focuses on Hardcore peeps. Generally I wouldn't mind if Raid Tier participation in Savage mode could potentially give Mentor, but then that'd be too easy to do or too hard to enter for most people, which is why SE defaulted to Commendations.

SE themselves needs to find a solution to the problem unless somebody here has a good idea to be discussed in regards to balancing the 1000 dungeons, Lv 80 on Tank/Healer/DPS, and 1 more that isn't Commendations.

[Galenini]

...snip...

*THE SUGGESTED LIST*

Post 1 of 2


I can agree with the sentiment of your post, however I'm scratching my head over the list above as it pertains to helping new players get started and returning players re-acclimatize. SE has set the maximum number of mentors at 100s logged into NN chat at any one time..... Mentors are allowed to specialize in areas of the game ........ and as a TEAM can help answer questions about the game. It seems a bit extreme, as well as unrealistic, to expect that any one mentor can answer every question posed. Mentors often help each other answer the same question.

I look at that list and my first response is, I don't think even Yoshi-P could accomplish all that. (Assuming he had time.)

When the mentor program started, SE was careful about making sure that the requirements DID show a level of commitment for that time, which included running a large number of dungeons (experience in dungeons), endgame level for healer, tank and dps (experience with the leveling system overall as well as role and class), and someone who appears helpful, courteous/friendly (commendations.) Feel free to argue what those 3 areas actually represent, I'm using that as an example.

The game has moved forward, endgame is now higher, hence the change to require mentors to once again have tank/healer/dps at endgame level. Moving the bar higher on dungeons has been suggested (which fits original intent), moving the bar higher on commendations also does, but the problem is that the measurement it represents has been distorted by actual use. You can also argue that dungeons run can/has been corrupted by unsynced dungeons runs (but I could argue back it still represents knowledge of dungeon/mechanics. Insert counter-counter argument on one-shotting mobs, by-passing mechanics.)

Handing the mentors a watering can icon, or pick an icon of any flavor, (your idea for information isn't bad, but the watering can is a great reminder to help sprouts/returning flowers to grow .. not just through information, but also, if they choose, through running dungeons with them, etcetera) I would HOPE would remove the implication of any sense of superiority, or whatever impression it has caused, to be removed.

In the early days, the first year of the mentor program, I ran with the crown on in case there were people who had questions, or wanted an NN invite; they knew I could answer/invite. I turned it off when I realized there was a perception that the crown was anything other than that. Having an identification icon in NN that says: this mentor specialized in PvP or Crafting is helpful for sprouts to understand how to view the answers they are getting. If there's a generic PvP question, having experienced it briefly, I can answer, but I always ask if there's a PvP mentor who'd like to provide more detailed information.

[Galenini]

Post 2 of 2


I think it's unrealistic to make mentors jump through excessive hoops just to be able to answer every question. NN provides a place for BOTH mentors and sprouts/returning players to offer information. It's a community. That's a community endeavor.

IF a mentor has had the time to accomplish all of those requirements listed above, fantastic! They have more experience than some other mentors. There are good mentors out there that can speak to large portions of the game and answer a huge swath of the questions that sprouts / returnings players have without having once stepped into a part of the game (Gold Saucer), or playing a specific part of Gold Saucer (Chocobo racing) that they do not like, or do not wish to play.

[Galenini]

I'm sorry, but you're being WAAAAY too restrictive with just Mentor requirements. Doing something like that is more of a crown than anything. To be real with you, you shouldn't have to force people to become an Eorzeapedia just because Mentorship should be more restrictive; I want to say that the way Mentorship is currently separated by Trade Mentoros and Combat Mentors is fine. It allows diversity in the Mentor system, regardless of whether you want a Crafter or not instead of putting it under one giant banner that more or less focuses on Hardcore peeps. Generally I wouldn't mind if Raid Tier participation in Savage mode could potentially give Mentor, but then that'd be too easy to do or too hard to enter for most people, which is why SE defaulted to Commendations.

SE themselves needs to find a solution to the problem unless somebody here has a good idea to be discussed in regards to balancing the 1000 dungeons, Lv 80 on Tank/Healer/DPS, and 1 more that isn't Commendations.

Totally agree.

I wish there was some way to hand out "commendations" in Mentor chat, for this person was helpful (classic please answer our survey on the service we provided.) Might weed out those that never answer. But I can't think of a way to do that without it being abused.

What SE is looking for is: was this person helpful / skilled / friendly enough to become a mentor helping others.

Commendations don't specifically measure that anymore.

Unless they add a new category that is just designated for : I like how this person glamoured / other.

And let you have the option to hand out one of each in every dungeon.

I know there's something wrong with that.

Also: look at the reward for handing out 5 commendations per week. That's also part of the problem.


And so many times, the person I want to give the commendation to has quickly left the instance and I've missed my opportunity. Therefore, I hand none out, because I won't give them out arbitrarily.

Needs an overhaul. And if I had an answer, boy would I post it for people to take pot shots at (to test it.)

[Hash_Browns]

A true Mentor System would require of a person to do something, that normal players would never think about doing at free will, if they wouldn't intend on helping others later, requirements like:

- Have done every Dungeon up to the current point at Minimum ILvl Requirement more than 50 times
- Have done every Raid up to current point at Minimum I Lvl Requirement more than 50 times
- Have done every Big Raid up to current point at Minimum ILvl Requirement more than 50 times
- Participated in more than 50 PvP Battles
- Leveled All Classes to 80, including crafters n collectors, not just 1 per Role, ALL, how should you be competent as Mentor, if you can't answer a question, because you played something in the game never?
- Have beaten all Epic Trials n Raid Versions at Minimum I Lvl Requirement at least 10 times up to the current point of the game.
- Crafted at least 1 legendary Weapon of each generation up to the current point of existance
- Reached Eureka Level 40 Plus and fully explore Hydatos
- Reached Palace of the Dead Level 100 and Heaves on High Level 100 SOLO
- Breed a Rank 9 Chocobo in Gold Saucer and participate in at least 50 Vermillion Matches against other Players


Becoming a Mentor should be a commitment, something that requires of a player truly effort, skill and knowledge in all parts n segments of the game, without being dependend on the mood and liking of random other players

Ahh, yes. I agree - all mentors should be required to do a million dungeons, and max all classes. How else am I going to teach a new players what a combo is, or how to limitbreak!? I'm sure that Rank 9 Chocobo & Verminion requirements are necessary requirement as well, given mentors have nothing to do with the Gold Saucer at all.

I'm sure so many people are willing to put years of work into helping people with the very basics of the game, and the mentor chat wouldn't be empty at all with these requirements.

I feel like this is easy bait though.

[Vnolan]

Needs an overhaul. And if I had an answer, boy would I post it for people to take pot shots at (to test it.)

There isn't one. The mentor system is there to have basic questions answered while saving SE money (no need to add various tutorials) and the roulette is there to fill queues. If mentors are able to provide advice about rotations, answer more difficult questions or are able to comfortably complete all of the duties in the roulette, that's a bonus.

Having stricter requirements will add actual prestige to the icon and will have fewer bodies that can be pulled for the roulette.

Has anyone stopped to ask why mentors need to be more skilled or knowledgeable other than to have something else that can separate players based on skill level?

[ErryK]

.

Lol, what? Almost none of these actually are necessary to teach people or answer their general questions like 'Where do I buy gear for Lv70?' or 'At what level do I unlock my Chocobo?' I think you said it yourself perfectly.

The whole mentor system here is just ridiculous as same as much meaningless crap with absolutely no weight behind it.