How do we feel about tank damage right now?

[Bravely_Default]

As of now there is no reason to gear a healer and a tank in a static other then to meet minimum gear level requirement.

[Reynhart]

Unfortunately this is a bad idea in hindsight. FFXIV already struggles in the tank population but this idea would push more players away from tanking besides just the experienced tanks.

I'm not so sure of that. I think most people stay away from tanks not because it's hard, but simply because they don't want to take that responsibility, even before they actually tried tanking in this game. So, that's not people that would be "pushed away from tanking", they never were tanks to begin with. Sure, you might lose some current tanks by making it harder, but, you should also consider that you may have some players that liked to tank, but moved towards DPS because they found it a little boring when fights are so scripted. And those people would probably come back to tanking.

Also, keep in mind that a less scripted fight is less scripted for everyone, making the content feels "new" for a longer time, since you'd always have some kind of unexpected outcome.

As of now there is no reason to gear a healer and a tank in a static other then to meet minimum gear level requirement.

That's why mitigation skills should scale with gear as much as DPS instead of being flat potencies. Def/MDef and HP are not enough.

[lillucario]

Disagree. As much as people like to pretend that dps is the end-all be-all of progression in this game, nothing could be further from the truth. Dps is what a tank or healer does after their primary function has been fulfilled. A raid without healing is a raid that won't make it 30 seconds into a fight, and a raid without tanks who know what they are doing will spend the entire run wiping. Hence, there is an assumption taken when having this discussion. Namely, that the tanks and healers are pulling off tank and heal stuff flawlessly 100% of the time, and then completely ignoring the absolutely necessary contributions to the group that tanks and healers bring by virtue of tanking and healing.

You do realize that tanks right now do their primary role of holding aggro by doing damage. That is literally what they changed their tank stances to be. Like others have said almost all bosses move themselves for us so that part of tanking is virtually gone. And mitigating tankbusters or AOE damage is as simple as pressing one button. What are we doing inbetween all that? DPS. Tanks are literal blue DPS and the changes they made this expansion further show that. If you refuse to accept that then that's on you.

Same for healers. They were given so many oGCD heals that if one were to solo heal a fight they could have something for most of the mechanics thrown at them with very minimal use of GCD heals. Have both healers now adding something to healing? You're left with a bunch of downtime for both of them now and that makes up a lot of a fight. So now they're both doing nothing but mostly DPSing while still tending to their primary role when needed with ease because of their ogcds. No healer thinks to only DPS 100% of the time in savage fights without throwing out as much as a single heal and one that does so is obviously bad.

[BarretOblivion]

No, dps is the end all be all. Everything else is PLAYER ERROR. fight clear time wont change if the tank or healer is higher then minimum gear level other then the damage they bring. Tank incoming damage as of now is laughable and healers have more OGCDs then they know what to do with. If healers step in the puddles and die that is a players own fault and doesnt mean they should get gear priority at the expense of lengthening the fight, and thus the chances more players die

Im not going to agree with the healers have more OGCD heals. They actually have about the same from SB and they are now gear priority over tanks because they won't have to heal as much as they would at mini level equalling more offensive spells they can throw out. In Titan specifically healers need to be geared to hit the healing check during final phase as there is a ton of damage being thrown out at the party and the group must be healed quickly during all of this. This is going to be the few moments however that healers need to GCD heal, other than that not enough damage is going out towards the party elsewhere for healers not to easily group heal with OGCDs. They need to ramp up the frequency of the healing required.. but then we get into the problem that healers won't be able to DPS much which means group DPS is going to drop. We are already at a spot where most jobs need to be dealing a solid amount of damage to hit DPS checks, and next tier the DPS requirement will increase. IF healers aren't able to DPS more than someone has to make up that difference, DPS have a cieling that they are soon going to hit, and at some point Tanks have to take over to help, this is just a fact unless they buff DPS... again. A complete overhaul of tanking would be required to change tanking... but the changes they made in ShB says they want tanks to be "blue DPS" which isn't bad persay but adding some more tank specific mechanics in the fight at least for the OT to do would help... alot in fact.

[Kabooa]

Gear priority is a player made issue. And it only matters if you're week 1 pushing. I'd argue it only matters if you're world racing. The amount of benefit gear grants you on a DPS scale might possibly be the difference between a wipe and a clear during week 1, but each wing also has a very clear cut capability thresh hold that matters more.

The first thing we decided as a static with the news of the coffer system was to decide how to dole it out, and admittedly, we aren't a week 1 static. However, I'd wager neither are most of you. Some of you, certainly. Most? No.

With that understanding in mind, we decided that coffers follow a casual BIS EP/GP system. Namely - if the coffer has your BIS, you roll on it. If you've won more pieces than the average in our group, the lower average loot winner has priority. In this manner gear has been divided evenly-ish, though in some cases gear has been passed, based on what coffers have dropped, what people want to buy with books. We're probably going to take a better look at Accessory coffers come next tier as the potential for duping was high and we hit a few weeks where the coffers were offjob fodder.

I know this might seem mind boggling, but you don't have to follow a gear priority system if you aren't racing. If you're just a standard, reclear as much as you can each week static, you can literally give the gear to anyone and the difference it will make is minimal.

[Bravely_Default]

I mean you can also choose not to use certain party buffs (reprisal, nascent flash, heart of light) if you arnt doing ultimate content, the difference is minimal. What it comes down to is optimization. Dps literally have a 1.5X damage multiplier over healers and tanks right now. In the sight of fairness players only gimp themselves in the long run of quicker clears for short term satisfaction. Even groups attempting a week 5 first clear of E2S could REALLY use those accessories from E1S for the dps. 3 accessories for a 20 level increase each is a LOT more damage than you might think.

[BarretOblivion]

Gear priority is a player made issue. And it only matters if you're week 1 pushing. I'd argue it only matters if you're world racing. The amount of benefit gear grants you on a DPS scale might possibly be the difference between a wipe and a clear during week 1, but each wing also has a very clear cut capability thresh hold that matters more.

The first thing we decided as a static with the news of the coffer system was to decide how to dole it out, and admittedly, we aren't a week 1 static. However, I'd wager neither are most of you. Some of you, certainly. Most? No.

With that understanding in mind, we decided that coffers follow a casual BIS EP/GP system. Namely - if the coffer has your BIS, you roll on it. If you've won more pieces than the average in our group, the lower average loot winner has priority. In this manner gear has been divided evenly-ish, though in some cases gear has been passed, based on what coffers have dropped, what people want to buy with books. We're probably going to take a better look at Accessory coffers come next tier as the potential for duping was high and we hit a few weeks where the coffers were off job fodder.

I know this might seem mind boggling, but you don't have to follow a gear priority system if you aren't racing. If you're just a standard, reclear as much as you can each week static, you can literally give the gear to anyone and the difference it will make is minimal.

Hmmm... I think you are missing something here. If your group plans on going for ultimate, your group needs to clear the last fight within a few weeks after release. Its in fact extremely important DPS players get prioirity not just to actually clear content, but it also gives your group cushions to where you gain the ability to if you get a death you can still recover. If you go all whilly nilly and give the gear to tanks/healers over DPS you will wipe more at small deaths within the first 5 weeks (7 weeks when next tier releases). Its not racing, its having a goal of clearing the tier at X point. Plus if you are hitting the third/fourth fight its important that those players are getting geared. Again, tanks are at the bottom of totem poll... by a large amount now when it comes to gearing priorities for statics. Im in an FC where our Alpha team cleaered week 1 and did the math, tanks were to wait last for gear priority because every other role gains so much more. DPS scale really well with better gear, Healers have to heal less with better gear meaning both thier offensive spells do more, but they also do them more often. Tanks gain a very small amount of damage and our HP increase is worthless besides gaining 1 extra auto attack from death from raid bosses. I'm sorry but the proof is pretty evident that Tanks scaling is off right now, very off.

[Reynhart]

If your group plans on going for ultimate, your group needs to clear the last fight within a few weeks after release.

No, you're not. If you have your static, you're free to try any content at your own pace.

And since Ultimate is always synced, clearing it 6 months after release is as worthy of praise as clearing within a few weeks.

[BarretOblivion]

I mean you can also choose not to use certain party buffs (reprisal, nascent flash, heart of light) if you arnt doing ultimate content, the difference is minimal. What it comes down to is optimization. Dps literally have a 1.5X damage multiplier over healers and tanks right now. In the sight of fairness players only gimp themselves in the long run of quicker clears for short term satisfaction. Even groups attempting a week 5 first clear of E2S could REALLY use those accessories from E1S for the dps. 3 accessories for a 20 level increase each is a LOT more damage than you might think.

OT skills sure, party wide mitigation???? Heck no, you better be doing that at all times in Savage especially in Titan. Final phase is incredibly healing intensive, so if you aren't mitigating that damage your group will DIE. Same can happen in parts of Leviathan during Stormy or his enrage calm before the storm. If you are a tank and not using your party wide mitigation, you are doing it very wrong.

[BarretOblivion]

No, you're not. If you have your static, you're free to try any content at your own pace.

And since Ultimate is always synced, clearing it 6 months after release is as worthy of praise as clearing within a few weeks.

If you plan on going in day 1 and prepare for a few weeks or months then yes, you are. If you plan on clearing it before the next raid tier comes out you are. Etc.