Monk rework/dmg nerf idea.

[SpeckledBurd]

That isn't a problem with my logic. My logic was sound, but did not examine or analyze ALL events ever in the history of the game. If all events had to be considered for logic to be sound then no logic in any field except for math would be sound.

ANYWAYS
That's definitely some analysis I hadn't considered, And you have some good points. It is absolutely true that the negligence towards Fists Of* suggests that it hasn't been integral to their current iteration of the job. And the Decoupling of riddles from fist stances further suggest that, but what I said about the original complete job still holds true, even if back in ARR fist stances weren't perfectly designed, they were absolutely a facet of the Monks original identity and development.

Using a single premise "The devs have kept the fist stances around since the beginning" to justify the conclusion that "The Fist Stances are part of Monk's identity" is an inductive fallacy (specifically a Hasty generalization) at the most generous or Cherry Picking at the worst. It's absolutely a logical error.

The "they never have been" part you have not disproven by any means. Absolutely right now they aren't really part of MNK identity, but to me at the beginning of the game they absolutely were, and I would posit that by very nature of being included in, and acquired by the job quests in ARR that they were very much part of Monks identity at least during ARR.

Regardless I've made it pretty clear my position is one of perspective and desire. I LIKE the Fist Of* moves and want them to become a more prominent part of Monk's kit, thus my proposals and hopes for the classes future.

How have they ever been a part of Monk's identity? Just because they implemented them during the conversion from 1.0 to ARR Doesn't automatically make them a part of the jobs identity, it just means it was part of the kit along with other skills that were ineffective and wasted space like Featherfoot, Haymaker, and One-Ilm Punch. In proper play their use has eternally been "Set it and forget it" except for during one brief moment of developer oversight. They don't factor into the gameplay and never have except for the previously mentioned period of developer oversight. They don't factor into the lore, and never have. And if they've never factored into gameplay outside of a bug and don't add anything to the class that removing them and adding a trait to the job would, then they're pure bloat plain and simple.

By the same logic of "The devs implemented it in 2.0 and it stuck around for multiple expansions" You'd be saying that One Ilm Punch was a part of Monk's identity in Stormblood, which it absolutely wasn't. It was button bloat, and so are the fist stances.

Monk's identity is that it's a job that deals low to moderate damage per hit that ultimately deals a large amount of damage in the long run because of its fast GCD. You're incentivized to an aggressive playstyle by Greased Lightning, a trademark buff that grants you a large haste and a sizeable damage buff provided you stay on the boss and keep attacking as you keep up other buffs with nonlinear combos that weave in and out of each other as you hit a high number of positionals.

That is what Monk is. That is what Monk has been since ARR. The reason people detested Riddle of Fire's slow was because it ran contrary to this. The Fist Stances have never factored into it and their continued existence on the job is a problem.

I disagree, which isn't to invalidate your statement, as I recognize you think would be a bad interaction. To me trade-offs with positive gain are a very valuable and interesting way to build a class. Losing GL4 for 20 seconds (with it 5% atk speed) to instead net gain 20% bonus dmg for those seconds is a very good trade off. Now this may be biased and here is admitting why: I enjoy NIN at the moment. And... well basically every part of NIN's kit right now is a trade off.

Using a Ninjutsu right now is a guaranteed minor clip into GCDs resulting in a lost GCD over time.
Using Suiton Loses you a Raiton, and some additional GCD clip, but gains you access to trick attack.
Using Meisui trades access to trick attack and loses a raiton OR a gcd if used in TCJ in favor of half a bhavacakra, or a better aligned bunshin. Literally a CRAZY trade off that requires over 20 seconds of prep to net gain only 30 potency should you be able to actually get the bhavacakra in. (what the hell Devs? this is the only trade off I hate right now)
Using TCJ loses you 2-4 GCDs, but is still very much a potency gain.
Delaying Mug loses you some Mug potency, but prevents Ninki overcapping from time to time, and honestly its hard to tell when and how long one can delay mug without serious loss. but It is still an interesting trade off tool that takes skill and fight knowledge to use perfectly.

My point being trade offs aren't inherently bad, but can sometimes make a class more dynamic and interesting. Right now MNK doesn't have to make any decisions with any amount of foresight. If you do the opener right it's pretty much just use everything in order, on cooldown, and react to disconnects or downtime appropriately. I want MNK to be more than that.

And it's obvious... that many people don't want MNK to be more than that. And that's okay.

Monk isn't Ninja. It's not a job about weaving oGCDs and it isn't a job about and frankly I don't think it should be and the gameplay you're describing for Ninja just sounds clunky and frustrating, and I think, considering how vicious the outcry against Riddle of Fire was for slowing Monk down during Stormblood, that that the Majority of Monk's would agree.