Tactful ways to inform people that they're playing badly?

[Annabellechu]

You just need to understand, the problem is not the removal per say. It's your lack of empathy and communication. It's not because the majority agrees that it makes it any more "right". If your parents didn't like the way you turned out and disowned you without even talking about the issue how would you feel? Confused, frustrated, sad are all valid answers. We're mostly adults, we can communicate and fix our problems. Oh and for information I know my example is exagerated but for the sake of the argument it works because that's how I felt when they tried to kick me.

[Awha]

You just need to understand, the problem is not the removal per say. It's your lack of empathy and communication. It's not because the majority agrees that it makes it any more "right". If your parents didn't like the way you turned out and disowned you without even talking about the issue how would you feel? Confused, frustrated, sad are all valid answers. We're mostly adults, we can communicate and fix our problems. Oh and for information I know my example is exagerated but for the sake of the argument it works because that's how I felt when they tried to kick me.

Not sure if I used the word right, but if I did that is my fault since I am not saying that the action is correct or good because it passed, I am saying that the action is valid because the outcome of the vote is the only binary fact to to weigh the situation by. When you bring in outside feelings into this it creates situations that may lead to different outcomes for different people, but what I am saying is that everyone in theory should be able to agree that the outcome of a vote is a binary choice no middle ground it is black and white. If people treated it as such I do feel a lot of the issues with parsing, DF, play style difference would become a non factor. Since instead of viewing it as a personal attack on a style of play it comes down to an issue of well guess they did not want to play with me, oh well back at it. Since one constant I see when people talk about issues like this they let their own personal experience be it good or bad be the reason that justifies the vote instead of simply letting the outcome of the vote be the justification.

Do think when people try to bring right and wrong into this people tend to exaggerate or embellish a situation to create a more favorable image for their choice, instead of just using the outcome as a justification. Like with your disowning example sure I would be confused, and frustrated but that is irrelevant at that point since the deed was done, I can either choose to dwell on it or move on. My parents at that point do not care and it becomes a personal issue something I need to take care. Same goes for a lot of threads regarding removals most often either seeking justification or empathy towards the action but does that really do anything? End of the day the outcome is what matters the reasoning behind is moot to the general public since everyone handles everything differently. Once the removal happens it becomes an internal issue be it with yourself or GM.

Guess the view it is a akin to say a school had a policy had that every child must play if they are on a sports team, but the team does not want to have to deal with the kid that was forced to join the team because their parents wanted them to be on a sports team. So now the kid that honestly is only on the team because they were forced to is now forced to play a game and in situation A they try and fail or B they do not even bother to try because it does not matter since finishing the game is all that matters, or C they do want to learm and they are trying but the the expense of the team as a whole. In those situations it is bad all around for everyone it is not an enjoyable experience for anyone and only goes to build resentment all around.

As for your example I get where you are coming from, but way I see it what reason do they have to communicate? Would it be nice and helpful? Most differently but I do not think anyone should expect it being new is not a free pass as you mentioned before in your other thread. It is nice when you run into kind players but not everyone is kind, and to expect as much seems odd. Not saying you are expecting such but generally it does seem like people think being a new player means on a whole their experience has more value over the group itself.

Like with your example the reason for the removal is moot, the vote passed so that means the tank was not alone in how they felt, someone else must have felt the same so at that point it becomes a 2:1 in terms of time and experience in my opinion. The two of them verse you. While it sucks, I would say yes it does make sense for two people to put their time and experience over one person. Though I do not think it was personal, it was just a preference thing.

I know my view differs greatly from the norm, and maybe I do lack empathy, though I am on the spectrum and social norms go over my head. Sorry for the long rant, I find this topic interesting.

[Annabellechu]

Everyone has feelings and yes feelings are indeed not rational. Remember that feelings are negative and positive. This exact problem could end up positive for everyone if people took a couple seconds to fix the problem. I see the kick option as a last resort option that if used too quickly, shows a lack of empathy or lazyness.

[Hash_Browns]

Everyone has feelings and yes feelings are indeed not rational. Remember that feelings are negative and positive. This exact problem could end up positive for everyone if people took a couple seconds to fix the problem. I see the kick option as a last resort option that if used too quickly, shows a lack of empathy or lazyness.

Would just like to point out:

When I queue up for a dungeon, I don't care about other peoples feelings. Will I be nice? Sure.
Will I try to give some advice? Yes. But it's plainly clear when people aren't willing to learn.

A vote kick is the last step, but once you have dealt with the "You don't pay my sub" attitude it's really hard to find sympathy for people who lack the skill to do even the very basics in high level content.
Also, would just like to point out that I'm not in the dungeon to teach someone a class. I'm there to complete a dungeon.

If a DPS, tank, or healer aren't doing the role they chose, I'm going to try and replace them - not coddle or teach them how to play.

Half the time when I even offer advice it's thrown back at me.

As it stands, even if the run will be longer because I kicked a healer, and another one doesn't queue for 10 minutes I am still not willing to put up with some horrible player who has a 50% overheal, regens tanks when topped off, and does nothing 80% of the time when they could be DPSing.

Also just to be clear, a common disconnect here seems to be that people who are willing to kick others are toxic elists who have the highest of standards, where you need to be dealing super high damage as a healer, and you need to do savage content. This isn't the case at all.

it's pretty easy to play by the basics:

Healers - ABC, DPS when not healing, use OGCD heals, AOE at +3 mobs, play cards if you're an AST
Tanks - keep aggro, use cooldowns effectively, pull large packs, AOEs at +3 mobs
DPS - stay out of bad, AOE at +3 mobs, ABC

This is all stuff you learn before level 50. I should be seeing it in level 70-80 content.

[Jybril]

So question.
Does this happen to you folks often?
Seems like some of you seemingly get
an awful lot of bad players...

[Awha]

So question.
Does this happen to you folks often?
Seems like some of you seemingly get
an awful lot of bad players...

I do not run into bad players often, but I do run into players that I honestly do not wish to play with fairly often, that is why I tend to mostly queue with friends.

[Dogempire]

I do not run into bad players often, but I do run into players that I honestly do not wish to play with fairly often, that is why I tend to mostly queue with friends.

I'm genuinely interested in what you mean by a person you don't want to play with fairly often

[KageTokage]

I'm genuinely interested in what you mean by a person you don't want to play with fairly often

There's a selection of individuals from my DC I personally dread having to do ES1-4 reclears with because they've proven to me even since back in SB that they're...less then reliable and prone to screwing up randomly at pretty much any point in a fight.