SE Please Sell Gil

[Edax]

"Game will be P2W"

They already sell gil, so far no one has had complaints about the $25 - 500k exchange.

In the context of fighting bots, the bots provide an exchange rate that 50 times better then the mogstation. Of course the bots are going to win that battle.

You can also buy 8 additional retainers generating 1m every couple of days.

Which isn't healthy for the game.

[KageTokage]

In the context of fighting bots, the bots provide an exchange rate that 50 times better then the mogstation. Of course the bots are going to win that battle.

This is the very tactic the WoW RMTers used even after the token was implemented.

They'd simply sell gold at prices even lower then what Blizzard indirectly offered via the token so they could never get rid of them entirely.

RMT really is a problem that can only be mitigated at best as they almost always find ways to do it at little to no cost to themselves, meaning there's only profit to be made.

[alimdia]

In the context of fighting bots, the bots provide an exchange rate that 50 times better then the mogstation. Of course the bots are going to win that battle.

The context is people saying "the game will be pay to win", what bots do or don't do doesn't matter, it's whether this would be pay to win or not. The game didn't die when they started selling gil through level boosts, it wouldn't die if they added some sort of sub token, just like GW2, WoW, ESO, RS/OSRS, EVE and countless others remain alive with similar systems.

Which isn't healthy for the game.

And despite additional retainers being unhealthy for the game they have been here for what, 5 years now? And no doom and gloom, everything operates just fine, people who have them can earn more gil than those who don't, and it's all fine because gil is largely useless.

[linay]

The context is people saying "the game will be pay to win", what bots do or don't do doesn't matter, it's whether this would be pay to win or not. The game didn't die when they started selling gil through level boosts

Again, what's the point of asking for SE to sell gil if they already do? It's because the way SE does it is not enough as a means of earning gil.

And despite additional retainers being unhealthy for the game they have been here for what, 5 years now? And no doom and gloom, everything operates just fine, people who have them can earn more gil than those who don't, and it's all fine because gil is largely useless.

It's because you still have to have the items to sell and ventures for the retainers and even have to level up or boost each retainer. It is not a simple real money for gil exchange.

[alimdia]

Again, what's the point of asking for SE to sell gil if they already do? It's because the way SE does it is not enough as a means of earning gil.

Ask OP, I didn't start the thread, the point is that the argument I quoted is false.

It's because you still have to have the items to sell and ventures for the retainers and even have to level up or boost each retainer. It is not a simple real money for gil exchange.

And once you boost them and sell the items...? Nothing you're saying changes the fact that additional retainers give people a massive advantage in getting gil, not just from ventures, but also in increasing the limit of items you can sell at once.

If retainers and level boosts are not pay to win, then selling sub tokens is not pay to win, period. You can't pick when to drop the pay to win label and when to keep it.

Just because it isn't doom and gloom that my mother has had cancer for 7 years now does not mean cancer is healthy or that everything is fine. It's still a problem. If gil was largely useless as you say, there wouldn't be all these bots farming gil so your premise is contradicted by the reality of the situation.

Ignoring the weird and inappropriate analogy, what are you winning with gil? How does the existence of gil farming bots mean you can "win" the game with gil? When did they add tradeable raid gear that you can buy with gil? When did they add a PvP auto win button that costs gil? Enlighten me.

[Edax]

Ignoring the weird and inappropriate analogy, what are you winning with gil? How does the existence of gil farming bots mean you can "win" the game with gil?

Buying power.

it's all fine because gil is largely useless.

Clearly there's a market for this black market gil or the spam bots wouldn't be flooding the starting city states with their illicit advertisements. If gil is largely useless as you say, these botters wouldn't be wasting their time and money selling it.

[Reinfeld]

Buying power.



Clearly there's a market for this black market gil or the spam bots wouldn't be flooding the starting city states with their illicit advertisements. If gil is largely useless as you say, these botters wouldn't be wasting their time and money selling it.

It is largely useless in the pay-to-win sense. You can't really "buy power" in this game, it's more like "use Gil to save time". Crafted gear is on-par with current-tier 8-man normal raid stuff. If you have the income (and crafted stuff is so cheap now) it can speed up your gearing, but aside from that it really gives no advantage. I guess you could make the argument that it can be used to purchase Savage wins...but...why? What are they actually getting out of buying Savage-tier armor? I guess they can save 90 seconds in expert roulette if they buy a full set. If they feel any motivation to learn easier fights after cheating their way past the pinncale, I guess that can get marginally easier. And....to show off...? I guess they can also use it to penta-meld gear for that extra 3% damage boost.

Where Gil isn't worthless is the *true* endgame (aka glamour, housing and maybe powerleveling DOH). And I guess it's not worthless as a mode of gearing multiple jobs, but I did concede it's use as a time-saver.

Tldr; Gil is near-worthless as a means of buying power, but useful to save time and look pretty.

[linay]

Then the next point which I made just above you was that I thought they would also use gil to catch up in gear progression. So gil for glamour or other would not be ok. But gil used for catching up is ok. As we have determined that cash for catching up is ok. So SE shouldn't sell gil, but more catch up items like those coffers you get that have a whole set of gear.So someone who has taken a couple patch break doesn't feel like grinding can just log on to the mog station and move into a raid starting tier of gear. I am not exactly sure why people want to buy gil. But it would be fine for the cash shop to have gear instead of gil, it could even be cash shop unique sets. Which would make them unobtainable in game and just progression.

What catch up do they need to sell beyond the boost? They still want you to play the expansion, so there are catch up mechanics in the game itself.

And once you boost them and sell the items...? Nothing you're saying changes the fact that additional retainers give people a massive advantage in getting gil, not just from ventures, but also in increasing the limit of items you can sell at once.

If retainers and level boosts are not pay to win, then selling sub tokens is not pay to win, period. You can't pick when to drop the pay to win label and when to keep it.



Ignoring the weird and inappropriate analogy, what are you winning with gil? How does the existence of gil farming bots mean you can "win" the game with gil? When did they add tradeable raid gear that you can buy with gil? When did they add a PvP auto win button that costs gil? Enlighten me.

Retainers and level boosts still have you work to make use of them. Level boosts don't get you to max level and don't teach you how to play the job. Retainers don't help you with acquiring the items to sell and you still have to work on each retainer. Gil/token directly get you whatever gil gets you that you want that gives you advantage over other potential buyer that may not have the gil.

[Edax]

And despite additional retainers being unhealthy for the game they have been here for what, 5 years now? And no doom and gloom, everything operates just fine, people who have them can earn more gil than those who don't, and it's all fine because gil is largely useless.

Just because it isn't doom and gloom that my mother has had cancer for 7 years now does not mean cancer is healthy or that everything is fine. It's still a problem. If gil was largely useless as you say, there wouldn't be all these bots farming gil so your premise is contradicted by the reality of the situation.