Yet more ideas for SMN Rework between now and next expansion

[Archwizard]

I think what Vulcwen means here is that the current nature of Demis makes it preferable not to move during Trances, because they might ghost Akh Morn / auto attacks if they prioritize moving. One quick fix would be making them Turret-like, rooted somewhere with a comfortable range on both auto-attacks and Akh Morn / Revelation.

Well then, I would hope that this --

• Enkindle Bahamut/Phoenix removed. While either Trance is active, Egi Assault 1 becomes Akh Morn/Revelation.
• All pet command skills (Egi Assaults, Enkindle and Aetherpact) are reworked: Instead of your pet executing the skill after its next auto-attack cast, the effect functions like an oGCD ability cast by the Summoner, centered on or being cast from the Egi's current location. Your Egi will instantly have its current action or animation interrupted to execute the command more quickly, and will resume when the command completes.

-- would suffice to address Akh Morn at least (though I admit I could remove the instance of "Egi" to replace it with the broader "pet"). That type of miracle distance from the boss would be hard to come by, considering they're ranged pets and don't immediately run into its melee range.

As far as auto-attacks... probably a dumb question, but do Demis even have auto-attacks? I was under the impression they only fired off Wyrmwave/Scarlet Flame as you attacked, and otherwise were lacking in that department.

[Mansion]

As far as auto-attacks... probably a dumb question, but do Demis even have auto-attacks? I was under the impression they only fired off Wyrmwave/Scarlet Flame as you attacked, and otherwise were lacking in that department.

Sorry, yes that's what I mean, auto attacks are Wyrmwaves / Scarlet Flames. But the current design is crooked in the sense that you have to work around a "bug" to ensure 8 WW/SF per cycle because of the summoning animation possibly ghosting the first Ruin, so tying Auto Attacks to the SMN cast shows some problems. Tying them to oGCDs (like it used to be in StB) too would feel more bursty but the current oGCDs usage would be conflicting (as I guess we'd aim for 4 Festers and 1 ED).
While a pet that would auto attack on its own could be a solution, it might get queueing issues when we enkindle them... And having things get automatically done is boring (see MCH Queen Automaton).

I fear the broader problem is that pets just don't fit the FFXIV system, and that makes SMN pet interaction more of a hassle than anything really.

[Archwizard]

Sorry, yes that's what I mean, auto attacks are Wyrmwaves / Scarlet Flames. But the current design is crooked in the sense that you have to work around a "bug" to ensure 8 WW/SF per cycle because of the summoning animation possibly ghosting the first Ruin, so tying Auto Attacks to the SMN cast shows some problems. Tying them to oGCDs (like it used to be in StB) too would feel more bursty but the current oGCDs usage would be conflicting (as I guess we'd aim for 4 Festers and 1 ED).
While a pet that would auto attack on its own could be a solution, it might get queueing issues when we enkindle them... And having things get automatically done is boring (see MCH Queen Automaton).

I still don't think that's really the issue that can be adjusted by the SMN's behavior though. The "auto-attacks" are instant and have a 100y range, so it seems like movement is not a remote concern for Demis since they shouldn't even have to stop to attack, and with DWT speeding up your Ruin casts you're in a more solid position to get the maximum number of hits out per summoning.

[Shurrikhan]

Sorry, yes that's what I mean, auto attacks are Wyrmwaves / Scarlet Flames. But the current design is crooked in the sense that you have to work around a "bug" to ensure 8 WW/SF per cycle because of the summoning animation possibly ghosting the first Ruin, so tying Auto Attacks to the SMN cast shows some problems. Tying them to oGCDs (like it used to be in StB) too would feel more bursty but the current oGCDs usage would be conflicting (as I guess we'd aim for 4 Festers and 1 ED).
While a pet that would auto attack on its own could be a solution, it might get queueing issues when we enkindle them... And having things get automatically done is boring (see MCH Queen Automaton).

I fear the broader problem is that pets just don't fit the FFXIV system, and that makes SMN pet interaction more of a hassle than anything really.

Couldn't all that be resolved by simply building a Summoner-side queue instantly? We have other effects that technically check for and receive their benefits before the animations of the abilities that generate those effects even start (Greased Lightning comes most immediately to mind), so why not mimic those? At that point we wouldn't have to wait for the Bahamut/Phoenix's creation for it to start receiving benefits. It'd already be queued up, to multiple stacks/uses maximum. This would also prevent the Bahamut/Phoenix from losing casts to ghosting from multiple skills clipped.

Heck, that's all assuming we leave Egis (and Baha/Phoe) in their current worst-of-both-worlds state where they have all the delay of the former version of pets but have no HP and therefore cannot tank, count towards stacking mechanics (technically not doable for quite a while now, but you get the point), etc. If we truly exploit the fact that they longer have HP, and therefore aren't really even units, or find improvement opportunities elsewhere, we could remove the ghosting and delay issues universally.

[Mansion]

Couldn't all that be resolved by simply building a Summoner-side queue instantly? We have other effects that technically check for and receive their benefits before the animations of the abilities that generate those effects even start (Greased Lightning comes most immediately to mind), so why not mimic those? At that point we wouldn't have to wait for the Bahamut/Phoenix's creation for it to start receiving benefits. It'd already be queued up, to multiple stacks/uses maximum. This would also prevent the Bahamut/Phoenix from losing casts to ghosting from multiple skills clipped.

Heck, that's all assuming we leave Egis (and Baha/Phoe) in their current worst-of-both-worlds state where they have all the delay of the former version of pets but have no HP and therefore cannot tank, count towards stacking mechanics (technically not doable for quite a while now, but you get the point), etc. If we truly exploit the fact that they longer have HP, and therefore aren't really even units, or find improvement opportunities elsewhere, we could remove the ghosting and delay issues universally.

I'm not tech confident enough to know what is doabl and what is not, but from what I understand yes, it should be similar to Greased Lightning in the sense that pushing "Summon Bahamut" then any Ruin or Enkindle shoudl be queued and not skipped like it is currently the case.
For Egis, they are not units per se, but things coming from the Summoner is conflicting with thing coming from the Egi, so I'm a bit confused. Like in the opener we press multiple Egi Assaults and Enkindle and Devotion, and this can lead to "Cannot execute while pet is doing another task"... WHICH ONE?!

I think Egi Assaults should be oGCDs that can be used during SMN casts, but I don't know if it's possible. I certainly don't want to fall back on StB pet actions that you could use during a cast BUT you had to press the button 5 times before they were actually used.

[Rika007]

Also want to say, even if I don't agree with 60% of the options being presented, I love that these Summoner rework ideas keep popping up from different names day in and day out. It means that players WANT SOMETHING DIFFERENT. They are not pleased with current Summoner and just simple buffs isn't going to magically get them to be happy with it again