Do SMN and BRD need 2 DoTs?

[YusiKha]

To be fair, this could be said for regular dps moves too. Ruin 2 and Ruin 3 only do flat damage, and they are both on the same timer, do we really need two? I mean can't we just combine them into one?

DoT jobs are DoT jobs and flat dmg jobs are flat dmg jobs. Just cause we have 2 abilities that do the same thing doesn't mean we should merge them or get rid of one cause reasons.

Ruin 3 and Ruin 2 do different things though, as one has a cast time and higher damage, the other is instant but allows abilities to be weaved. This is more akin to asking that ruin 2 turn into ruin 4 instead of being separate buttons.

[JowyAtreides]

Ruin 3 and Ruin 2 do different things though, as one has a cast time and higher damage, the other is instant but allows abilities to be weaved. This is more akin to asking that ruin 2 turn into ruin 4 instead of being separate buttons.

You've answered your own question here for Summoner. Miasma has a cast time and Bio is instant and I think different potencies (can't check from work).

Bards rely on DoT ticks critting to proc their songs effects, they arguably care less for the actual damage of the DoT's than for the frequency, so your suggestion would need to come with a damage per half second (for example) counter. They also have a pair of skills that has potency dependent on the number of DoT's are on the enemies so these would need reworking. They've also got almost no skills to play with anymore, I sort of wish they had 3 DoT's personally, such as a fire arrow that does burn damage.

[HyoMinPark]

I sort of wish they had 3 DoT's personally, such as a fire arrow that does burn damage.

RIP Flaming Arrow. Thou shalt never be forgotten.

[JowyAtreides]

RIP Flaming Arrow. Thou shalt never be forgotten.

Oh this was a thing? I only played as early as 2.0 and they only skill I remember losing was that "needle-like" rain of arrows

[HyoMinPark]

Oh this was a thing? I only played as early as 2.0 and they only skill I remember losing was that "needle-like" rain of arrows

Flaming Arrow was a 30s ground AOE that dealt damage over time to all who went into it. It was on a 60s cooldown and could snapshot raid buffs. It was a part of BRD from 2.0 to the end of HW. They removed it going into Stormblood.

If you’re talking about Rain of Death, BRD still has that.

Im not advocating for the dumbing down of summoner or bard, I’m highlighting that there are redundant skills.

Simplifying them into a single button is dumbing them down. BRD already lost enough of its complexity going into ShB—it really doesn’t need to lose anything else.

[YusiKha]

Simplifying them into a single button is dumbing them down. BRD already lost enough of its complexity going into ShB—it really doesn’t need to lose anything else.

Then instead of it and caustic bite being a button you only press once per 30s+ transition phase, why not ask to have it reworked to be something worthwhile?

[HyoMinPark]

Then instead of it and caustic bite being a button you only press once per 30s+ transition phase, why not ask to have it reworked to be something worthwhile?

The DoTs are worthwhile: they’re the source of our Repertoire, and our Repertoire procs many a different things. Personally, I’d rather our DoTs return to how dynamic they were back in SB, where we could use them to snapshot buffs and manipulate our proc rate. However, I don’t expect this to ever be a thing again.

I think they are talking about Wide Volley, that rain of purplish/pinkish thin arrows.

Ah. The “needle-like” made me thing of Rain of Death, since it looks more needle-esque to me.

[Mansion]

Oh this was a thing? I only played as early as 2.0 and they only skill I remember losing was that "needle-like" rain of arrows

It was yeah, I think it was some ground AoE targetting, and it got removed in Stormblood if I remember correctly.


I'm with Hyomin there, plus maining SMN : Two DoTs is fine, as long as the rotation gives you efficient tools for DoT uptime management (which Bard has, and SMN too outside of 2-3 seconds every 2 minutes).
Button bloat is not a thing on Bard, really.
On SMN that's a thing perhaps, but I don't think that's the first thing that should be considered.

If you’re talking about Rain of Death, BRD still has that.

I think they are talking about Wide Volley, that rain of purplish/pinkish thin arrows.

[JowyAtreides]

I think they are talking about Wide Volley, that rain of purplish/pinkish thin arrows.

That's the one yes, apologies for the confusion Hyomin

I also remember that fire puddle now!

[YusiKha]

You've answered your own question here for Summoner. Miasma has a cast time and Bio is instant and I think different potencies (can't check from work).

Bards rely on DoT ticks critting to proc their songs effects, they arguably care less for the actual damage of the DoT's than for the frequency, so your suggestion would need to come with a damage per half second (for example) counter. They also have a pair of skills that has potency dependent on the number of DoT's are on the enemies so these would need reworking. They've also got almost no skills to play with anymore, I sort of wish they had 3 DoT's personally, such as a fire arrow that does burn damage.

The cast time on miasma means that it and bio can be applied simultaneously, and having the same duration means that they should always be applied simultaneously. There’s no point in them being separate because they’re always used together, like Berserk and Inner Release.
Im not advocating for the dumbing down of summoner or bard, I’m highlighting that there are redundant skills.