Maybe RDM need....

[PatronasCharm]

What does Red Mage need? It needs more magical DPS spells, not a stance that nerfs Cure / Raise. I don't count Scorch as one, bc its just a cherry on top of the 1-2-3 combo 4-5. I don't count Reprise or Engagement as anything either, their so situational, they're just there...

I believe what RDM needs is to remove Acceleration, add two new magical DPS spells that do what Acceleration does that grants a DPS bump [415 Potency Spells that automatically trigger Fire / Stone Ready][In my post Verblizzard / Verwater: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rd-already%21] I mention this.

They need to Remove Reprise and add TWO new magical dps spells in its place that do the SAME THING, instant cast, on the go like Reprise, but use White or Black mana. That to me would be a more effective Mana dump, and would allow us to manipulate our Ver(Finisher).

• -Verbio: -5 Black Magic 280 Potency, Deals Dark Damage that inflicts Attack Down when stacked 4 times
• Duration 60s
• Once 4 Verbio is stacked, target receives a reduced Attack
• Duration: 14s

• -Verdia: -5 White Magic 280 Potency, Deals White Damage that inflicts Defense Down when stacked 4 times
• Duration 60s
• Once 4 Verdia's are stacked, target receives a reduced Defense
• Duration: 14s

Verraise? Eh, Leave it as is. I don't believe that's the main reason behind our DPS loss, I believe SE just half-arsed RDM in Shadowbringers by not giving it new DPS tools outside of Scorch.

Red Mage had (HAS) a lot of potential for growth in its overall kit, Water / Ice / Black / White, new Ancient AoE's, Quake / Freeze / Flood / Burst. I don't care much for more WS's, as we're a magical ranged DPS. I want to see more flare in our kit.

These are my two cents though. I am very passionate about RDM as it's the one job that brought me back to play FFXIV in the first place. SE give RDM some TLC and branch it out to remove this rezzmage (Remember Refresh from FFXI anyone?) stigma and make it something more!

[Katie_Kitty]

What does Red Mage need? It needs more magical DPS spells, not a stance that nerfs Cure / Raise. I don't count Scorch as one, bc its just a cherry on top of the 1-2-3 combo 4-5. I don't count Reprise or Engagement as anything either, their so situational, they're just there...

I believe what RDM needs is to remove Acceleration, add two new magical DPS spells that do what Acceleration does that grants a DPS bump [415 Potency Spells that automatically trigger Fire / Stone Ready][In my post Verblizzard / Verwater: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...rd-already%21] I mention this.

They need to Remove Reprise and add TWO new magical dps spells that do the SAME THING, instant cast, on the go, but with a little extra

• -Verbio: -5 Black Magic 280 Potency, Deals Dark Damage that inflicts Attack Down when stacked 4 times
• Duration 60s
• Once 4 Verbio's are stacked, target receives a reduced Attack
• Duration: 14s
  
  

• -Verdia: -5 White Magic 280 Potency, Deals White Damage that inflicts Defense Down when stacked 4 times
• Duration 60s
• Once 4 Verdia's are stacked, target receives a reduced Defense
• Duration: 14s

Verraise? Eh, Leave it as is. I don't believe that's the reason behind our DPS loss, I believe SE just half-arsed RDM in Shadowbringers.

Red Mage had (HAS) a lot of potential for growth in its overall kit, Water / Ice / Black / White, new Ancient AoE's, Quake / Freeze / Flood / Burst. I don't care much for more WS's, as we're a magical ranged DPS. I want to see more flare in our kit.

These are my two cents though. I am very passionate about RDM as it's the one job that brought me back to play FFXIV in the first place. SE give RDM some TLC and branch it out to remove this rezzmage (Remember Refresh from FFXI anyone?) stigma and make it something more!

Obviously it'll never happen, but I think it would be pretty cool to keep RDM's damage where it is but give it some skills that would allow it to take the place of a healer or maybe even a tank as well in some circumstances. For example, cutting out the 2nd healer and rolling with 4 DPS + RDM + WHM or SCH or AST with the RDM having something like aspected helios that allows them to heal+shield/regen party members and maybe buffing vercure too. The other healer of course would do the majority of the actual healing but with the RDM filling in well enough while contributing its normal DPS.

Another idea would be a stance that reduces damage and increases defense and enmity generation + maybe an invuln so they could fill in the role of OT in some circumstances as well and go with 4 DPS + 2 healers + RDM + PLD or GNB or WAR or DRK. would probably need a taunt too. That would be pretty neat and I'd happy to be the worst DPS by a mile if they made it viable to do something like that.

[cactuarzzzz]

You get to use it twice in E3S and thrice in E4S. If we want to talk Ultimates, you get to use it even more frequently during transitions. But you’re wanting to remove it based on the single, full-uptime fight in this entire tier? Why are you not considering the other three in your suggestion? There’s no reason to lock it out in general, but you’re trying to apply an exception as support for your proposition, rather than looking at the norm (which would be the other fights where you get usages from the skill).

It's not a proper way to use healing spell. I don't get why you guy're so upset.
5.1 is coming and RDM's buff/change is expected so you can ask for alt way or suggest a better changes but instead of asking for a proper/alt way you're so mad at me for trying to take the way to exploit that rely on transition from you?.The battle stance I suggest could be a lv.72+ skill so you can kept using the expoilt in ultimate but why do you have to be so quick to judge me? You could even suggest that when enter the stance in the beginning it give RDM's insta cast + free blk+wht mana but all I hear is how people upset with me, what the?

If instead of stance you get 10 sec personal dps boost would you rather using healing in that window instead of the attack skill? unless you want to reduce your dps? I've said this before that the stance doesn't have to be perma but if you want to deal better damage all time+have emboden improvement and able to use verrise/heal all the time it could bring us to another problem down below.

[I hope I don't have to repeat it again but] if after the changes RDM is being mobile+doing good damage + bring good dps utility + able to use verrise/heal at whim then is there a reason to bring Bard/Mechanist/Summoner? If RDM getting a buff and turn to be that great class it would feel nice to me too but it wouldn't be me who you need to convince, It is the classes that loss their place to you, especially when 1 spot is likely get permenantly claimed by the BLM.

[HyoMinPark]

It's not a proper way to use healing spell. I don't get why you guy're so upset.
5.1 is coming and RDM's buff/change is expected so you can ask for alt way or suggest a better changes but instead of asking for a proper/alt way you're so mad at me for trying to take the way to exploit that rely on transition from you.The battle stance I suggest could be a lv.72+ skill so you can kept using the expoilt in ultimate but why do you have to so quick to judge me? You could even suggest that when enter the stance in the beginning it give RDM's insta cast + free blk+wht mana but all I hear is how people upset with me, what the?

If instead of stance you get 10 sec personal dps boost would you rather using healing in that window instead of the attack skill? unless you want to reduce your dps? I've said this before that the stance doesn't have to be perma but if you want to deal better damage all time+have emboden improvement and able to use verrise/heal all the time it could bring us to another problem down below.

[I hope I don't have to repeat it again but] if after the changes RDM is being mobile+doing good damage + bring good dps utility + able to use verrise/heal at whim then is there a reason to bring Bard/Mechanist/Summoner? If RDM getting a buff and turn to be that great class it would feel nice to me too but it wasn't me who you need to convince, It is the classes that loss their place to you, especially when 1 spot is likely get permenantly claimed by the BLM.

My dude. You need to calm down. The judgments you are getting are well-deserved because you don’t seem to consider how RDMs actively use Vercure, which implies you don’t know much about how the job plays at a high level. If this is true, you should not be suggesting changes. Get a decent understanding of how RDM playa before you start throwing ideas out there. Because, right now, I think you don’t understand how the job plays at all.

I’m not even upset. I’m just criticizing your suggestion because it seems to come from nowhere near a decent understanding of RDM gameplay.

[SaberMaxwell]

It's not a proper way to use healing spell. I don't get why you guy're so upset.

Take away Manaward, Bloodbath, and Second Wind then. Emergencies aren't a thing, and Cure 1 is apparently OP.

5.1 is coming and RDM's buff/change is expected

There are RDM buffs / changes expected? Red Mage was one of the jobs that was hardly even mentioned in the Live Letter except to explain that Raise is why RDM and SMN suffer low DPS like they do. The devs never mentioned vercure.

so you can ask for alt way or suggest a better changes but instead of asking for a proper/alt way you're so mad at me for trying to take the way to exploit that rely on transition from you.

An exploit? Lmao is Umbral Soul an exploit now too? Is Form Shift an exploit now as well? I'm not mad, by the way, you posted your idea on a public forum, which means it's up to public scrutiny.

The battle stance I suggest could be a lv.72+ skill so you can kept using the expoilt in ultimate but why do you have to so quick to judge me?

I'm not judging you, I'm judging your ideas. Your ideas are not you. Also this would mean nothing for the next Ultimate.

You could even suggest that when enter the stance in the beginning it give RDM's insta cast + free blk+wht mana but all I hear is how people upset with me, what the?

"Look, you can't disagree with me that the moon is cheese, but what kind of cheese it is is up for debate."

The idea from the outset is almost wholesale Cleric Stance. Cleric Stance is something the developers removed from the game two expansions ago. I don't think Cleric Stance is a good way forward, full stop, so why would I make suggestions to improve your Cleric Stance? Why would giving RDM free instacast + free mana help the situation at all? That would mean having to time its use for transition phases, and one would probably already be timing them for group burst phases anyway?

If instead of stance you get 10 sec personal dps boost would you rather using healing in that window instead of the attack skill? unless you want to reduce your dps? I've said this before that the stance doesn't have to be perma but if you want to deal better damage all time+have emboden improvement and able to use verrise/heal all the time it could bring us to another problem down below.

If the stance isn't permanent, it changes nothing about the paradigm it has with Black Mage. The fact that Red Mage can raise at all puts it at odds with ever being near (read, not 1500+ behind) Black Mage's damage. Giving RDM a cleric stance would probably make it even tougher on Black Mages, unless they also get a stance that instead gives them access to a raise ability.

[I hope I don't have to repeat it again but] if after the changes RDM is being mobile

Hah, Red Mage, mobile. Good joke.

+doing good damage + bring good dps utility

With the current FFLogs paradigm these are one in the same.

+ able to use verrise/heal at whim

Verraise is the problem, not vercure.

then is there a reason to bring Bard/Mechanist/Summoner?

BRD/MCH/DNC would be brought for the 1% damage they offer the role, since Red Mage and Summoner should be fighting for the same slot as Black Mage. There's a problem when for the past two expansions, Casters and Rangers have both been fighting to hold both ranged slots in the party.

If RDM getting a buff and turn to be that great class it would feel nice to me too but it wasn't me who you need to convince, It is the classes that loss their place to you, especially when 1 spot is likely get permenantly claimed by the BLM.

If RDM gets all the buffs you outlined at once, it would be brokenly overpowered. But it won't; if anything, Summoner will rocket back up to the top while Bard and Machinist likewise go up. No data on DNC and how they treat it yet, but they seem to enjoy RDM and DNC being at the absolute bottom of the barrel.

[Lubu_Mykono]

Just add a passive to make Verflare or VerHoly AOE please, or add a secondary aoe move that can proc white or black mana exclusively off a proc.

[Jkap_Goat]

Keep in mind when we talk about DPS balance we tall about RDPS which is more than just the amount of damage you put up on your own. RDM does not need to put up the same amount of personal DPS for it to contribute a comparable amount of rDPS, nor should it. What lots of people don't seem to understand is that rDPS is supposed to be damn near perfectly balanced because it represents the total amount of overall damage contribution by the class minus padding. If selfish jobs are blowing support jobs away so badly that their personal DPS alone makes their rDPS vastly vastly superior (keep in mind rDPS specifically excludes padding so in terms of actual performance the gap is even higher than rDPS suggests) then the gap is way way too high and balance is completely screwed. BLM's personal DPS alone should not put it 1500+ DPS above RDM in rDPS. Period.

TLDR ; All I hear is DPS which is this game is built around on. Period this game will never achieve true balance.

These Support jobs you call it...should be able to clear any content as Yoshi P said.

Red mage will never reach top DPS with it's utility and Its too bad you don't like it. Oh well.

FFXIV is way to centered about DPS, I hope the next FF MMO is notthing like ffxiv

[HyoMinPark]

TLDR ; All I hear is DPS which is this game is built around on. Period this game will never achieve true balance.

These Support jobs you call it...should be able to clear any content as Yoshi P said.

Red mage will never reach top DPS with it's utility and Its too bad you don't like it. Oh well.

FFXIV is way to centered about DPS, I hope the next FF MMO is notthing like ffxiv

No one is demanding RDM be the top DPS. They’re advocating for it to not be punished for utility that stops being utility in any farm or optimized setting (Verraise). They’re advocating for it to not be completely destroyed by BLM (which, it is being completely destroyed). Same for SMN. The imbalance between the casters is astounding, and worse than it was in Stormblood (where RDM also suffered for most of the expansion due to Verraise).

The “support” jobs are all viable—they can all clear the content. But there are some that are so weak that it’s becoming more and more likely that they are going to be excluded in favor of other jobs (e.g., the physical ranged are looking as if they will be excluded from speedkills and BLM take both ranged slots—Aether PFs for early Savage saw DNC being excluded in E3S and E4S parties due to its low personal damage, and the fact that its raid buffs do nothing to push it above any other DPS job). Jobs like SMN and RDM are completely flattened by the only other job in their role by no small margin (BLM); and jobs that have no utility (SAM) are being out-damaged by jobs that bring utility (MNK).

[Katie_Kitty]

TLDR ; All I hear is DPS which is this game is built around on. Period this game will never achieve true balance.

These Support jobs you call it...should be able to clear any content as Yoshi P said.

Red mage will never reach top DPS with it's utility and Its too bad you don't like it. Oh well.

FFXIV is way to centered about DPS, I hope the next FF MMO is notthing like ffxiv

It's almost as if you didn't even read my post. All you're doing here is just attacking the same strawman over and over again and completely ignoring any and all responses.

[Jkap_Goat]

No one is demanding RDM be the top DPS. They’re advocating for it to not be punished for utility that stops being utility in any farm or optimized setting (Verraise). They’re advocating for it to not be completely destroyed by BLM (which, it is being completely destroyed). Same for SMN. The imbalance between the casters is astounding, and worse than it was in Stormblood (where RDM also suffered for most of the expansion due to Verraise).

The “support” jobs are all viable—they can all clear the content. But there are some that are so weak that it’s becoming more and more likely that they are going to be excluded in favor of other jobs (e.g., the physical ranged are looking as if they will be excluded from speedkills and BLM take both ranged slots—Aether PFs for early Savage saw DNC being excluded in E3S and E4S parties due to its low personal damage, and the fact that its raid buffs do nothing to push it above any other DPS job). Jobs like SMN and RDM are completely flattened by the only other job in their role by no small margin (BLM); and jobs that have no utility (SAM) are being out-damaged by jobs that bring utility (MNK).

This seems like more of a personal problem , than a problem with red mage in general. Why don't you just find a party that will accept red mage then