Two months into Shadowbringers, do you find yourself still using Trusts?

[MomomiMomi]

Do you kill everything? Are you the tank or the DD/healer? My runs go a bit faster when I am not the tank because the NPC tank can take more damage. I am not at the vault yet with them but anything under 50, especially when I want everything will take quite the time. I am not sure if 15 minutes is possible then.

I've used them as all three roles. Most of the time I do kill everything. There are some exceptions, like Dzemael Darkhold where there's stuff that requires you to go quite out of your way to get to them. In cases like that, you get more exp/hr if you just skip them.

Also, as a tank, you can turn your tank stance off if you're really struggling. The dps can honestly tank better than you.

[Alleo]

I've used them as all three roles. Most of the time I do kill everything. There are some exceptions, like Dzemael Darkhold where there's stuff that requires you to go quite out of your way to get to them. In cases like that, you get more exp/hr if you just skip them.

Also, as a tank, you can turn your tank stance off if you're really struggling. The dps can honestly tank better than you.

I am not sure if its a sign of great coding if you need to not be the tank as a tank to survive. IMO just fix the healer AI and a lot of headaches would be gone.

Still you must be quite good at it because I finally finished the Aurum Vale runs and I cant see how that will ever be cleared by me in less than 19-20 minutes. I cant tank more than two packs at a time and my tank died when I pulled half of the first room. Then the wait for each of the morbol "children" to spawn because they give much more exp that way and then later if you let the tank pull big it can go quite wrong because they are all over attacking different NPCs because the tank is too slow.

I just prefer trusts. They might be slower but had me less annoyed at the same time. And I would say 97% of the times that I died was because I made a mistake..only the first boss at Holminster as a tank was a problem because the healer first did not heal me. But turning him a bit and moving near them solved that.

[MomomiMomi]

I am not sure if its a sign of great coding if you need to not be the tank as a tank to survive. IMO just fix the healer AI and a lot of headaches would be gone.

Trusts are definitely better designed. They actually put effort into them. Meanwhile, squadrons were made OP simply so that they wouldn't have to put a ton of effort into designing them. I just wish trusts were better designed and just as good as the squadrons. Either increase their damage, make them AoE, or both.

[EdwinLi]

Trusts are definitely better designed. They actually put effort into them. Meanwhile, squadrons were made OP simply so that they wouldn't have to put a ton of effort into designing them. I just wish trusts were better designed and just as good as the squadrons. Either increase their damage, make them AoE, or both.

I don't think just straight up increasing damage nor adding AoE skills only when they are fighting large mobs may make them interesting.

I am more in line with them developing the Trust system into a more RPG aspect for the system such as a Skill tree to choose how players want to develop each Trust individual similar other FF games that have NPC party members. Maybe even allow Trust to Unlock their own Solo LB so they no longer use the Player's LB bar.

Trust is a Solo experience but not meant to replace Player parties nor Player party speedruns of 15 minutes or less. It is meant to give a more Solo RPG/Story Instance experience to the MSQ Dungeons thus the development of Trust may be more interesting if they developed the experience to be a bit more unique from Player group experiences. Yes, giving the abiltiy to improve each Trust individual in the players own way will still increase the speed the Trust complete dungeons due to being stronger and introducing Solo LB to Trust companions but it is not going to be too major to a point they become a alternative to 15 minute speedruns certain players seem to be obsessed with making Trust parties into. Average I expect the improvements may only make things run a bit faster between the 20 to 30 minute mark considering averge right now for players is a 25 to 35 minute mark.

[MomomiMomi]

I don't think just straight up increasing damage nor adding AoE skills only when they are fighting large mobs may make them interesting.

I don't think they need to be made any more interesting than they already are. They just need to be made faster. That is their biggest flaw.

Trust is a Solo experience but not meant to replace Player parties nor Player party speedruns of 15 minutes or less.

But squadrons already do that. Why can't trusts?

[LaylaTsarra]

I don't think they need to be made any more interesting than they already are. They just need to be made faster. That is their biggest flaw.

Trusts don't need to be speed runnable. If you want to speed run something use DF. Trusts shouldn't be made to replace the benefits of DF parties in my opinion. Seems the speed run crowd will never be happy with this content if they can't run them like they do normal parties.

[MomomiMomi]

Trusts don't need to be speed runnable. If you want to speed run something use DF. Trusts shouldn't be made to replace the benefits of DF parties in my opinion. Seems the speed run crowd will never be happy with this content if they can't run them like they do normal parties.

I don't even like maximum speed runs. But there is a degree of speed that is acceptable and one that isn't. It shouldn't take them as long as it does to clear a dungeon. They shouldn't be doing much less damage than a normal player will be doing with a single target rotation, much less than what they do with AoE. And the biggest culprit is the bosses, because they stop doing any damage at all whenever a mechanic happens.

It's been a while but I think it took me something like 5 minutes to beat some of the bosses. It's an absurd amount of time. I actually fell asleep twice on the second boss of Holminster because god does it take long, and it's not an interesting boss in the least.

We can ignore AoE for the moment. Compare what Y'shtola does in damage to what a player BLM will do with their single target rotation. You don't even need a parser for this, just pull up the log and look at the numbers. They're abysmal.

From memory, I believe at least half of her spells were doing somewhere around 33% of the damage of what a BLM does on single target. Feel free to check and correct me though. I can't at the moment or I would.


Found this on the internets, I can't confirm it but it sounds about right:

In the 71 dungeon, I had ryne at around 3.6k, thancred at 3.1k and Urianger at around 1.1k. And on dragoon at i390, I did 9-11k average by just spamming aoe.

Personally, I'd say they should be performing somewhere around 80% of what a real player should be doing. They're nowhere near that.

[Alleo]

Trusts are definitely better designed. They actually put effort into them. Meanwhile, squadrons were made OP simply so that they wouldn't have to put a ton of effort into designing them. I just wish trusts were better designed and just as good as the squadrons. Either increase their damage, make them AoE, or both.

I agree with you. Maybe as a bonus for leveling them up to 80 you unlock further abilities with them. This way we would have more to it other than getting their old outfits back. (I just imagine the WoL sitting them down and trying to explain what they are doing wrong which would then include at least one: you dont pay my sub- option.)

Because this is an MMORPG and the game should be designed to encourage group play and socialization with solo options being clearly inferior alternatives for those who are determined not to group for whatever reason. If people want an optimized single-player experience, they should go play a single-player game.

Then why is it possible to solo PotD/HoH and get exp for it? Why is it possible to level up all jobs with only squadrons who are at least as fast if not faster than normal groups and who have no downsides to the loot too? (And give poetics at lvl 60). Why should the trusts be the one not allowed to do what is already done ingame? And they still could lock this ability behind getting them to 80 so that it does take some work.

It would just be an option for those of us who (for various reasons) dont want to always run with real people. I still do roulette, simply because it gives a nice exp boni. But other than that I am right now getting all jobs to at least 60 with squadrons, roulettes and hunting licenses (also solo content with lots of exp behind it) and after that will exchange squadrons with trusts as soon as possible, maybe with some PotD or HoH in between.

Yes the RPG upgrading as Trust level up elements added into improving Trust Companions as a group and individually will still reduce the time it takes to complete dungeons (most likely within 20 to 30 minutes based on how lazy or active the player is rather than the normal 25 to 35 minutes) but Trust is a story instance experience that takes on the enemy mobs differently from what Players have set themselves to act.

So instead of just increasing some of the power of their skills (maybe as Momomi said to around 80% of an avarage player) which would probably not take much work, you want them to have a whole skill tree (something we dont even have as a player) and other stuff just for RPG purposes that will at the end be around the same as just the increase but with much more money and time involved. Honestly that time and money would have been imo better spent to increase their reach into older content.

[EdwinLi]

So instead of just increasing some of the power of their skills (maybe as Momomi said to around 80% of an avarage player) which would probably not take much work, you want them to have a whole skill tree (something we dont even have as a player) and other stuff just for RPG purposes that will at the end be around the same as just the increase but with much more money and time involved. Honestly that time and money would have been imo better spent to increase their reach into older content.

The addition of trust into older content below 5.0 has already been taken into consideration by Yoshi-P and developers with them already saying that they know it will be important to add into the game to help newer players with the older content so it is way past the "discuss it more to make it happen" Stage and in the "We're working on it" Stage. Right now that topic can be considered in the "When will happen" stage now so we can only wait until they get that implamented into the game through a future content update or expansion.