Dark Knight: 5.0x Feedback Thread

[MerlinCross]

If you're only using Edge/Flood once every 30s you're doing it very wrong.

Really cause that's what I seem to recall the community saying at least around launch. Have to keep your buff up so make sure you're at least doing it once every 30 seconds.

But here in lies a small rub in using them. I won't go into the issues about MP but ask a different question. How often should we be actually casting them and how often should we be getting them for free from TBN? Checking how well TBN should be worked into the rotation for a DPS gain(And not like a defense skill with a bonus, no it's a free damage skill that gives a shield up front), is that you can't really test this against say, training dummies. No there's only a few places where you can practice just how many Edges you actually should be getting. Especially now if people have better gear scores and thus TBN is actually harder to break.

So I'm just asking, how many Edges should we be getting, from Normal Cast and Free TBN casts?

[DRKoftheAzure]

Really cause that's what I seem to recall the community saying at least around launch. Have to keep your buff up so make sure you're at least doing it once every 30 seconds.

But here in lies a small rub in using them. I won't go into the issues about MP but ask a different question. How often should we be actually casting them and how often should we be getting them for free from TBN? Checking how well TBN should be worked into the rotation for a DPS gain(And not like a defense skill with a bonus, no it's a free damage skill that gives a shield up front), is that you can't really test this against say, training dummies. No there's only a few places where you can practice just how many Edges you actually should be getting. Especially now if people have better gear scores and thus TBN is actually harder to break.

So I'm just asking, how many Edges should we be getting, from Normal Cast and Free TBN casts?

Normal casts range from 10 seconds to 25 seconds based on either Blood Weapon or Delirium thanks to removal of the haste effect among other things, and if you are using only 1-2-3 with Carve and Spit... as for TBN, I never use it unless I really need to but by then I have no MP to use for TBN... also using Edge and Flood after somehow losing Darkside is only a minor DPS loss, like 35 potency for Flood and 50 potency for Edge is lost... so DPS gain is so small with Darkside that you might as well not have Darkside as a a job mechanic for Dark Knight...

[Kyni]

Really cause that's what I seem to recall the community saying at least around launch. Have to keep your buff up so make sure you're at least doing it once every 30 seconds.

But here in lies a small rub in using them. I won't go into the issues about MP but ask a different question. How often should we be actually casting them and how often should we be getting them for free from TBN? Checking how well TBN should be worked into the rotation for a DPS gain(And not like a defense skill with a bonus, no it's a free damage skill that gives a shield up front), is that you can't really test this against say, training dummies. No there's only a few places where you can practice just how many Edges you actually should be getting. Especially now if people have better gear scores and thus TBN is actually harder to break.

So I'm just asking, how many Edges should we be getting, from Normal Cast and Free TBN casts?

One every 30 seconds is the absolute minimum to keep darkside up, but you wpuld overcap on mp, with only 2 uses per minute. DRK's mp generation is enough for 4 Edges/Floods per minute (it's slightly more but not enough for more uses). TBN only costs you uses, if it doesn't break. It never gains you a use cast, it only allows you to stockpile one more cast fpr raidbuffs or burn phases. So the answer is always 4 per minute, in a 100% uptime fight, and around 3 additional uses, per fight, because of the starting mp.

[Ultimatecalibur]

One every 30 seconds is the absolute minimum to keep darkside up, but you wpuld overcap on mp, with only 2 uses per minute. DRK's mp generation is enough for 4 Edges/Floods per minute (it's slightly more but not enough for more uses). TBN only costs you uses, if it doesn't break. It never gains you a use cast, it only allows you to stockpile one more cast fpr raidbuffs or burn phases. So the answer is always 4 per minute, in a 100% uptime fight, and around 3 additional uses, per fight, because of the starting mp.

Which pushes things up to 10.8 ogcds per minute, but it appear that most of the Dark Knight's ogcd usage is frontloaded each minute. AD, SE, CnS and Living Shadow have little reason to be delayed so you more or less end up using those ogcds at the start and then spend the rest of the minute doing 123 occasionally 4 with the occasional Edge and Plunge.

[FallenWings]

GCD differences

DRK: SE combo, Bloodspiller, StalS combo, Quietus
4 Unique ST keys, 3 Unique AoE keys

PLD: RA combo, Goring combo, Atonement, Holy Spirit, Confetiteor, Prom Combo, Holy Circle
7 Unique ST keys, 4 Unique AoE keys (Confetiteor appears in both ST and AoE)

WAR: Path Combo, Eye Combo, Fell Cleave/Inner Chaos, Mythril Combo, Decimate/Chaotic Cyclone
5 Unique ST keys, 3 Unique AoE keys

GNB: SB Combo, GF Combo, Sonic Break, Burst Strike, DS Combo, Fated Circle
8 Unique ST keys, 3 Unique AoE keys


-------------------------------------------------------------------
oGCD differences
Per minute

DRK: 4x Edge/4x Flood, 1 Ad, 1 CNS, 2 Plunge, 1 BW
9 keystrokes, 5/6 Unique keys
Potency: (550*4) + 220 + 495 + (220*2)
Total: 3355

PLD: 2x SW, 2x Cos, 2x Inter, 1x Fof 1x Requis
8 keystrokes, 5 Unique keys
Potency: (370+462.5) + (295+368.75) + (250*2) + 550
Total: 2,546.25

WAR: ~3x Inf, 2x UH, ~1 Ons
~6 keystrokes, 2 Unique keys, 1 Situational key
Potency: (~1375*~3) + (495*2)
Total: 5115

GNB: 6x Cont, 2x BF, 1x BwS, 2xRD , 1x NM
11 keystrokes, 5 Unique keys
Potency: (840+1008) + (800+960) + 780 + (240*2)
Potency: 4868

Additional 90/2Min buttons
DRK: LS, DE, SE
3 Unique keys, 1.83 keystrokes per min
Potency: 2800 + (330*5) + 330
Total Average per minute: 1400 + 1100 + 220
2720

PLD:

WAR: IR, Ons
1 Unique key, 0.33 keystrokes per min
Potency: ~4840 + 220
Total Average per minute: 3,226.66 + 146.66
3372.66 (Cannot crit or direct hit)

GNB: BF
Potency: ~360
1 Unique key, 0.33 keystrokes per min
Total Average per minute:
240

Additonal defensives used for optimal offensive play
DRK: 1 TBN every minute
PLD:
WAR: Venegance every 2 minutes
GNB:


Total potency gained ontop of GCD via oGCD attacks (and for whatever reason buff oGCDs) per minute average

DRK: 6075 (Blood gain from BW not calculated)
PLD: 2,546.25
WAR: 8,487.66 (7497.66 pot that cannot Crit or Dhit and 7,277.66 of which is Inner Chaos/Fell Cleave)
GNB: 5,108

DRK: 12 keys, 10.83 oGCD CPM
PLD: 12 keys, 8 oGCD CPM
WAR: ~9 keys, ~7.33 oGCD CPM
GNB: 14 keys, 11.33 oGCD CPM

TLDR: If you're gonna take a dump on DRK; maybe play the class first.

[Ultimatecalibur]

TLDR: If you're gonna take a dump on DRK; maybe play the class first.

It was never about average damage more about but what a DRK was doing. During every minute a Paladin is hitting 12 unique keys with the majority being different gcd keys. In comparison, in most minutes the Dark is only hitting 9 unique keys with the majority being ogcd keys.

Also your DRK and WAR potency numbers are inflated because you just added the numbers from the Fell Cleaves and Bloodspillers when factoring the damage gain from those two buffs while also leaving out the 50% increase in damage to Holy Spirit and (access to) Confiteor from using Requiscat.

[waterboytkd]

It was never about average damage more about but what a DRK was doing. During every minute a Paladin is hitting 12 unique keys with the majority being different gcd keys. In comparison, in most minutes the Dark is only hitting 9 unique keys with the majority being ogcd keys.

Also your DRK and WAR potency numbers are inflated because you just added the numbers from the Fell Cleaves and Bloodspillers when factoring the damage gain from those two buffs while also leaving out the 50% increase in damage to Holy Spirit and (access to) Confiteor from using Requiscat.

1-2-3 combo
bloodspiller
CnS
AD
Edge
Plunge
BW
Delirium

That's actually 10 keys. And then, if you extend this to "per 90 seconds" it goes up to 11 keys. And 12 keys at "per 2 minutes". All while PLD doesn't change if you go beyond 60s.

Now, the pacing for DRK does leave something to be desired, I'll give you that. Those first 15 seconds of each minute are really busy, then things calm down for a while. I could totally get behind reducing the recast on AD, CnS, and SE, while also reducing their potency. I think a 30s recast on AD and CnS would be amazing. 60s on SE would be great.

[Reynhart]

That's actually 10 keys. And then, if you extend this to "per 90 seconds" it goes up to 11 keys. And 12 keys at "per 2 minutes". All while PLD doesn't change if you go beyond 60s.

Exactly, you need to extend to two minutes if you want to use 12 differents keys, whereas PLD use them every minute.

Also during those two minutes, you mostly repeat the same 3 GCDs sequence, whereas PLD never uses the same 3 GCDs sequence back to back except during the 4 Holy Spirit spam.