Dark Knight: 5.0x Feedback Thread

[Lyth]

...

Look at the selection of oGCDs that each job manages (outside of burst window buffs).

• Paladin - Spirits Within, Circle of Scorn, Intervene (3)
• Gunbreaker - Blasting Zone, Bow Shock, Rough Divide, Continuation (4)
• Warrior - Upheaval (1)
• Dark Knight - Edge/Flood, Salted Earth, Plunge, Abyssal Drain, Carve and Spit, Living Shadow (6)

The action on DRK happens as much between GCDs as it does on the GCD. Edge at 500 potency has as much impact if not more impact than most GCDs.

Also, did you seriously just count the continuation combo as three unique GCDs? The only technical difference is that you're expected to roll your face across the keyboard instead of hammering your face against a single key when it's active. Let's face the truth: Requiescat = Inner Release = Delirium = Continuation.



One is slightly more pretentious than the others, but that doesn't make it functionally any different.

When you look at burst windows, PLD and DRK have two, GNB either has two on a very slight technicality (given the fact that the rotation changes ever so slightly at 30 seconds vs. 60 seconds), and WAR has one. Also, DRK is really the only resource-based tank job, while the others all follow scripted rotations. So take from that what you will.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Look at the selection of oGCDs that each job manages (outside of burst window buffs).

• Paladin - Spirits Within, Circle of Scorn, Intervene (3)

Spirits Within, Circle of Scorn and Intervene are all on roughly 30s times which roughly doubles how often they are used in a 1 minute rotation. Alongside FoF and Requiscat which are used once per minute. A Paladin is using 8 offensive ogcds per minute with 5 different buttons.

• Gunbreaker - Blasting Zone, Bow Shock, Rough Divide, Continuation (4)

Blasting Zone and Rough Divide are every 30s, Continuation happens 3 times every 30s, No Mercy and Bow Shock are every 60s and Bloodfest is 90s. Gunbreaker does ~12.6 ogcd every minute with 6 different buttons.

• Warrior - Upheaval (1)

Warrior has 3 offensive ogcds (Upheavel, Infuriate, Inner Release) and one semi-offensive ogcd (Onslaught). Upheaval is on a 30s cooldown, Infuriate is on a 30s cooldown that shortens with each Fellcleave/Inner Chaos use and Inner Release is every 90s. Onslaught is 10s but shouldn't be used offensively outside IR. Given a rough estimate of 3.5 Infurates per minute the Warrior is doing ~6.8 offensive ogcds with 3 different buttons.

• Dark Knight - Edge/Flood, Salted Earth, Plunge, Abyssal Drain, Carve and Spit, Living Shadow (6)

Edge/Flood are basically every 30s, Plunge is every 30s, Abyss Drain, CnS and Blood Weapon are 60s, Salted Earth and Delirium are every 90s and Living Shadow is every 120 mins. The Dark Knight uses ~8.8+ ogcds every minute with 8 different buttons.

The action on DRK happens as much between GCDs as it does on the GCD. Edge at 500 potency has as much impact if not more impact than most GCDs.

Most of the other tanks are doing that much also. Spirits Within and Circle of Scorn are doing 735 combined every 30s, Blasting Zone and Upheaval are 450 every 30s. DRK barely does more offensive ogcds than the Paladin even if it has more buttons dedicated to them.

Also, did you seriously just count the continuation combo as three unique GCDs? The only technical difference is that you're expected to roll your face across the keyboard instead of hammering your face against a single key when it's active. Let's face the truth: Requiescat = Inner Release = Delirium = Continuation.

As much as I would like the Continuation combo to be mapped to one gcd button and one ogcd button, at default, it is mapped to 3 different gcd buttons which gives a very different feel than the "press Fellcleave/Bloodspiller 5 times" bursts of WAR and DRK.

Paladin also has it's burst mapped to more than 1 gcd button (needing 1 for Holy Spirit and 1 for Confiteor) This kind of makes it distinct from the other tanks even if the effect of the burst is the same as the others.

Both the Paladin and Gunbreaker bursts feel different from the other 3 tanks which likely helps theirs distinguish them from IR.

[Freyyy]

Edge/Flood are basically every 30s

If you're only using Edge/Flood once every 30s you're doing it very wrong.

[MerlinCross]

If you're only using Edge/Flood once every 30s you're doing it very wrong.

Really cause that's what I seem to recall the community saying at least around launch. Have to keep your buff up so make sure you're at least doing it once every 30 seconds.

But here in lies a small rub in using them. I won't go into the issues about MP but ask a different question. How often should we be actually casting them and how often should we be getting them for free from TBN? Checking how well TBN should be worked into the rotation for a DPS gain(And not like a defense skill with a bonus, no it's a free damage skill that gives a shield up front), is that you can't really test this against say, training dummies. No there's only a few places where you can practice just how many Edges you actually should be getting. Especially now if people have better gear scores and thus TBN is actually harder to break.

So I'm just asking, how many Edges should we be getting, from Normal Cast and Free TBN casts?

[DRKoftheAzure]

Really cause that's what I seem to recall the community saying at least around launch. Have to keep your buff up so make sure you're at least doing it once every 30 seconds.

But here in lies a small rub in using them. I won't go into the issues about MP but ask a different question. How often should we be actually casting them and how often should we be getting them for free from TBN? Checking how well TBN should be worked into the rotation for a DPS gain(And not like a defense skill with a bonus, no it's a free damage skill that gives a shield up front), is that you can't really test this against say, training dummies. No there's only a few places where you can practice just how many Edges you actually should be getting. Especially now if people have better gear scores and thus TBN is actually harder to break.

So I'm just asking, how many Edges should we be getting, from Normal Cast and Free TBN casts?

Normal casts range from 10 seconds to 25 seconds based on either Blood Weapon or Delirium thanks to removal of the haste effect among other things, and if you are using only 1-2-3 with Carve and Spit... as for TBN, I never use it unless I really need to but by then I have no MP to use for TBN... also using Edge and Flood after somehow losing Darkside is only a minor DPS loss, like 35 potency for Flood and 50 potency for Edge is lost... so DPS gain is so small with Darkside that you might as well not have Darkside as a a job mechanic for Dark Knight...

[Kyni]

Really cause that's what I seem to recall the community saying at least around launch. Have to keep your buff up so make sure you're at least doing it once every 30 seconds.

But here in lies a small rub in using them. I won't go into the issues about MP but ask a different question. How often should we be actually casting them and how often should we be getting them for free from TBN? Checking how well TBN should be worked into the rotation for a DPS gain(And not like a defense skill with a bonus, no it's a free damage skill that gives a shield up front), is that you can't really test this against say, training dummies. No there's only a few places where you can practice just how many Edges you actually should be getting. Especially now if people have better gear scores and thus TBN is actually harder to break.

So I'm just asking, how many Edges should we be getting, from Normal Cast and Free TBN casts?

One every 30 seconds is the absolute minimum to keep darkside up, but you wpuld overcap on mp, with only 2 uses per minute. DRK's mp generation is enough for 4 Edges/Floods per minute (it's slightly more but not enough for more uses). TBN only costs you uses, if it doesn't break. It never gains you a use cast, it only allows you to stockpile one more cast fpr raidbuffs or burn phases. So the answer is always 4 per minute, in a 100% uptime fight, and around 3 additional uses, per fight, because of the starting mp.

[Ultimatecalibur]

One every 30 seconds is the absolute minimum to keep darkside up, but you wpuld overcap on mp, with only 2 uses per minute. DRK's mp generation is enough for 4 Edges/Floods per minute (it's slightly more but not enough for more uses). TBN only costs you uses, if it doesn't break. It never gains you a use cast, it only allows you to stockpile one more cast fpr raidbuffs or burn phases. So the answer is always 4 per minute, in a 100% uptime fight, and around 3 additional uses, per fight, because of the starting mp.

Which pushes things up to 10.8 ogcds per minute, but it appear that most of the Dark Knight's ogcd usage is frontloaded each minute. AD, SE, CnS and Living Shadow have little reason to be delayed so you more or less end up using those ogcds at the start and then spend the rest of the minute doing 123 occasionally 4 with the occasional Edge and Plunge.

[FallenWings]

GCD differences

DRK: SE combo, Bloodspiller, StalS combo, Quietus
4 Unique ST keys, 3 Unique AoE keys

PLD: RA combo, Goring combo, Atonement, Holy Spirit, Confetiteor, Prom Combo, Holy Circle
7 Unique ST keys, 4 Unique AoE keys (Confetiteor appears in both ST and AoE)

WAR: Path Combo, Eye Combo, Fell Cleave/Inner Chaos, Mythril Combo, Decimate/Chaotic Cyclone
5 Unique ST keys, 3 Unique AoE keys

GNB: SB Combo, GF Combo, Sonic Break, Burst Strike, DS Combo, Fated Circle
8 Unique ST keys, 3 Unique AoE keys


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oGCD differences
Per minute

DRK: 4x Edge/4x Flood, 1 Ad, 1 CNS, 2 Plunge, 1 BW
9 keystrokes, 5/6 Unique keys
Potency: (550*4) + 220 + 495 + (220*2)
Total: 3355

PLD: 2x SW, 2x Cos, 2x Inter, 1x Fof 1x Requis
8 keystrokes, 5 Unique keys
Potency: (370+462.5) + (295+368.75) + (250*2) + 550
Total: 2,546.25

WAR: ~3x Inf, 2x UH, ~1 Ons
~6 keystrokes, 2 Unique keys, 1 Situational key
Potency: (~1375*~3) + (495*2)
Total: 5115

GNB: 6x Cont, 2x BF, 1x BwS, 2xRD , 1x NM
11 keystrokes, 5 Unique keys
Potency: (840+1008) + (800+960) + 780 + (240*2)
Potency: 4868

Additional 90/2Min buttons
DRK: LS, DE, SE
3 Unique keys, 1.83 keystrokes per min
Potency: 2800 + (330*5) + 330
Total Average per minute: 1400 + 1100 + 220
2720

PLD:

WAR: IR, Ons
1 Unique key, 0.33 keystrokes per min
Potency: ~4840 + 220
Total Average per minute: 3,226.66 + 146.66
3372.66 (Cannot crit or direct hit)

GNB: BF
Potency: ~360
1 Unique key, 0.33 keystrokes per min
Total Average per minute:
240

Additonal defensives used for optimal offensive play
DRK: 1 TBN every minute
PLD:
WAR: Venegance every 2 minutes
GNB:


Total potency gained ontop of GCD via oGCD attacks (and for whatever reason buff oGCDs) per minute average

DRK: 6075 (Blood gain from BW not calculated)
PLD: 2,546.25
WAR: 8,487.66 (7497.66 pot that cannot Crit or Dhit and 7,277.66 of which is Inner Chaos/Fell Cleave)
GNB: 5,108

DRK: 12 keys, 10.83 oGCD CPM
PLD: 12 keys, 8 oGCD CPM
WAR: ~9 keys, ~7.33 oGCD CPM
GNB: 14 keys, 11.33 oGCD CPM

TLDR: If you're gonna take a dump on DRK; maybe play the class first.