Monk should it be "Nerfed" ?

[ShadowNyx3]

I see one mention of the most broken skill on Monk which is Riddle of Earth and that's not nearly enough discussion as there should be when talking about nerfs to Monk. 30 seconds of 10% personal damage reduction that now does not remove your Fists of Fire AND negates positional requirements for that time span. Other melee should be looking at that and crying outrage.

A nerf doesn't have to decrease dps output but it can certainly do something about reigning in unchecked, overpowered skills that let a job do everything the other similar jobs can do but flat out better.

Or maybe it does need to be combined with a dps nerf as well, because I seem to recall lots of people crying over how Summoner was just too good at the end of 4.X, having ultra mobility, a magical damage raid buff and a raise on one of the top dps. Now look at Summoner and compare it to Monk. Still think Monk should be top dps with virtually no positionals, personal damage reduction that can tank mechanics and increases uptime, a raid buff for physical damage, AND a super powerful healing buff that lets healers heal less and do more damage?

Come on.

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

RoE is only OP because the raids allow it to be. E2S has an AoE almost every minute making it easy to use. However, E1S needs more planning. If you want to nerf it in some way, remove the initial 30s from RoE and make it 10 or 15s but earth's reply should still remain 30s as a reward for a well timed RoE. Moving on to E3S, RoE is redundant there's no positionals, and for 50% of E4S there is also no positionals. Of course a Monk is going to excel when no positionals are needed, and so they should that's their gimmick. People act like RoE is 100% uptime or something while the other dps have 2 to 3 positionals max. It's not, and does require actual planning to use to get the most out of it. For years DRG and NIN were overtuned and absolutely devastated the balance, yet there wasn't this much outrage at those, suddenly Monk's back to being king again and everyone cries wolf as if it's some sort of travesty and unfair. Welcome to FFXIV where there will ALWAYS be a top job

[Exiled_Tonberry]

Look at history repeating itself.
"Nerf the strongest and buff the weakest!"
Now the weakest are OP and the strongest are garbage until the next expansion where they'll be reworked...

[Akiudo]

Look at history repeating itself.
"Nerf the strongest and buff the weakest!"
Now the weakest are OP and the strongest are garbage until the next expansion where they'll be reworked...

to be fair, that happening is on square. I might preface this next paragraph with the notion that i don't think mnk should be nerfed, at absolute "worst" other classes should get something like riddle of earths damage reduce for themselves but damage wise someone has to be at the top, there is zero reason this someone shouldn't be monk (talking raid dps here, not personal dps) however if everything else being equal the best class is 10% above the worst class than square should aim to get this discreptancy gets closer to 5%,3%,2%, if what is the strongest class today suddenly is in the bottom 3 while at the same time a middle of the pack class advances to topspot that simply means square overdid it, which brings me back to my original point. there is zero reason monk cant be the best dps, unless every class is exactly the same one class simply has to be, what squares job in all of this is to keep the discrepancies between classes in a reasonable range

edit:

RoE is only OP because the raids allow it to be. E2S has an AoE almost every minute making it easy to use. However, E1S needs more planning. If you want to nerf it in some way, remove the initial 30s from RoE and make it 10 or 15s but earth's reply should still remain 30s as a reward for a well timed RoE. Moving on to E3S, RoE is redundant there's no positionals, and for 50% of E4S there is also no positionals. Of course a Monk is going to excel when no positionals are needed, and so they should that's their gimmick. People act like RoE is 100% uptime or something while the other dps have 2 to 3 positionals max. It's not, and does require actual planning to use to get the most out of it. For years DRG and NIN were overtuned and absolutely devastated the balance, yet there wasn't this much outrage at those, suddenly Monk's back to being king again and everyone cries wolf as if it's some sort of travesty and unfair. Welcome to FFXIV where there will ALWAYS be a top job

people vastly overestimate both the difficulty to hit most (not all, you may miss some for sure) positionals aswell as the effect if you miss some, if you do nothing but stand at the bosses back not once moving to the side and pressing true north on cooldown this will cost you like 200 dps at 90% which still leaves them at a comfy 1300 dps above every ranged

[SpeckledBurd]

When ROE was just a 10% damage reduction at the beginning of Shadowbringers, none of the other jobs cried foul because that on its own is useless on a DPS 99% of the time.

The only part of ROE that matters is the 30 seconds of no positionals which should be toned down to 15-20s. It should still be longer than True North because of its activation requirements, the amount of positionals Monk has, and that the activation requirement is (still) stupid.

As for nerfing Monk as a whole, yes they should. I’ve always said that the devs need to be more willing to nerf Jobs and now isn’t any different. The solution is easy, Nerf Monks autoattacks by 15% and delete Enhanced Riddle of Fire as a trait (because the only reason we’re using GL4 is because of Autoattacks for the most part). That should shave off about 400 damage and put Monk where it should be.

[AngelicSnake]

Nah I think the other dps should just be buffed. Shb dungeon bosses take way too long to kill anyways

[Ryaz]

Nope. Make changes to other classes where required. Why make people who currently are enjoying the class upset when u can bring up other classes a bit?

Judging from your avatar, I think I found my twin sister. Or you're my gender bent doppleganger.

[Sora_Oathkeeper]

Across all 4 turns at the highest percentiles BLM is above MNK except in Leviathan, which has no positionals. Of course MNK should perform better there. To preface Monk's position as a dps you need to take into account that Brotherhood is RNG and comp dependant. At best you buff 6 players (2 tank, 2 melee, 2 ranged) at worst you buff 3 (2 tanks, 1 melee) granted these comps wouldn't be optimal as you lose out on party bonuses. The raid dps in brotherhood drops from 450~ to 180~(tanks don't contribute to it as much) furthermore, in the worst comp Monk's are 50% less likely to gain chakras over the best comp. 2-3 extra Forbidden Chakras becomes 1-1.5. Losing thousands of potency across a fight just based on comp. So now the Monk also loses roughly 50% of their TFCs in my E1S I did 17 forbidden chakras, worth 1.1k dps, half that is 650~dps going from optimal to non optimal comp is roughly a 900~ dps loss through no fault of the player. Nerfing Monk because of its RNG and party composition related dps is absurd. Monk should be at the top. Its position is fine, the only changes needed are SAM being higher and the other outliers being raised. Nerfing an RNG and composition dependent class is just ridiculous. If Monk's DPS was not RNG and comp dependent I would agree it's overtuned, but because of the variance it can have because of such factors I disagree that a nerf is needed.

[Aelin_Ashryver]

Judging from your avatar, I think I found my twin sister. Or you're my gender bent doppleganger.

Well I'm definitely the cuter twin :P

[TaiyouSeishin]

Across all 4 turns at the highest percentiles BLM is above MNK except in Leviathan, which has no positionals. Of course MNK should perform better there. To preface Monk's position as a dps you need to take into account that Brotherhood is RNG and comp dependant. At best you buff 6 players (2 tank, 2 melee, 2 ranged) at worst you buff 3 (2 tanks, 1 melee) granted these comps wouldn't be optimal as you lose out on party bonuses. The raid dps in brotherhood drops from 450~ to 180~(tanks don't contribute to it as much) furthermore, in the worst comp Monk's are 50% less likely to gain chakras over the best comp. 2-3 extra Forbidden Chakras becomes 1-1.5. Losing thousands of potency across a fight just based on comp. So now the Monk also loses roughly 50% of their TFCs in my E1S I did 17 forbidden chakras, worth 1.1k dps, half that is 650~dps going from optimal to non optimal comp is roughly a 900~ dps loss through no fault of the player. Nerfing Monk because of its RNG and party composition related dps is absurd. Monk should be at the top. Its position is fine, the only changes needed are SAM being higher and the other outliers being raised. Nerfing an RNG and composition dependent class is just ridiculous. If Monk's DPS was not RNG and comp dependent I would agree it's overtuned, but because of the variance it can have because of such factors I disagree that a nerf is needed.

Monk has utility, and therefor should have utility tax? Normally means they should be balanced with utility in mind. Wether you find mantra useful or not... it by itself should normally mean your utility tax doesnt get as much refunded and should not be top...