Ran'jit's strength makes no sense

[Alleo]

I don't have a problem with Ran'jit or Zenos beating us. I don't even have an issue with Ran'jit just beating us because he's that well trained and badass.

I have an issue with how things resolve. What changes between our second and third fight with Zenos? Nothing except our level number arbitrarily went up. What I don't like is the vague 'power level' shoenen vertical story power progression.

I agree with that. You could say that we leveled up but the problem is that the time between each fights should not be that long thanks to being stuck in a time bubble and as you said we did not have time or training to learn more about their styles. But this expansion was a bit strange anyway. We defeat Titania on our own all alone. The same with Vauthry but somehow for the rest we need the help of all the scions? The powerlevel in this game is really a bit messed up imo and it just feels like its at a level that the plot needs at that time.

I always said that it was not that great to already fight things like Bahamut and other beings like Thordan and his knights that early in the story. (And lets not talk about beating Omega) We should be at a level were only trickery should get us defeated. And yet suddenly we have these two who can beat us. At least they could have made it that we do nearly beat them but then they use unfair methods or truly something we do not know to defeat us at the last moment. This way we would look way better and it makes sense that especially on the first we suddenly are able to mob the floor with him solo.

About the Ranjit himself: I also wonder how much difference in strenght having more soul makes. It sounded like we would become more powerful and Emets words does hint at that too yet Ranjit with only 1/14 of a soul has the same power level than us with 8/14 of the whole soul. He might have had more years but he also only had one continent to train his strenght with since 100 years ago the rest disappeared. We on the other hand not only can in canon job change and learn/master these jobs quite fast but had enemies that should be beyond mortal limits.

[LineageRazor]

And Zenos... yeah. Zenos is blandness in motion. I'm really hoping they at least come out with some excuse about how he was the product of some horrible science experiment or something. He already comes off like an expy of Sephiroth in some ways. Might as well just go whole hog at this point, no?

Honestly, Sephiroth had better characterization, I'd say. Pre-Jenova, he was much like Zenos, I suppose, but the very fact that learning about Jenova upset him the way that it did indicates to me that he DID have some very human weaknesses (and he reacted to those weaknesses in pretty much the worst way imaginable). I'd say Zenos is a lot more like Kefka, a bad egg from cradle to grave. Kefka, though, was more entertaining, given that he was such a loon.

About the Ranjit himself: I also wonder how much difference in strenght having more soul makes. It sounded like we would become more powerful and Emets words does hint at that too yet Ranjit with only 1/14 of a soul has the same power level than us with 8/14 of the whole soul. He might have had more years but he also only had one continent to train his strenght with since 100 years ago the rest disappeared. We on the other hand not only can in canon job change and learn/master these jobs quite fast but had enemies that should be beyond mortal limits.

I question the assumption that being "more rejoined" would have any effect on one's martial prowess. It makes one more capable of Creation, we know, but the Ancients may very well have been noodle-armed wimps when it comes to combat. Certainly it's the case that when we engage Ascians in combat, the Ascians rarely fight us hand-to-hand, instead whaling on us with big ol' balls of chaos energy or whatever. Our bout with Elidibus in Zeno's body was an exception - but the guy had possessed that body specifically to go toe-to-toe with us in that way.

[Edax]

I question the assumption that being "more rejoined" would have any effect on one's martial prowess. It makes one more capable of Creation, we know, but the Ancients may very well have been noodle-armed wimps when it comes to combat. Certainly it's the case that when we engage Ascians in combat, the Ascians rarely fight us hand-to-hand, instead whaling on us with big ol' balls of chaos energy or whatever. Our bout with Elidibus in Zeno's body was an exception - but the guy had possessed that body specifically to go toe-to-toe with us in that way.

Well, given that Ran'jit's greatest attack was a long range one-hit KO lightning strike, does it even matter how good skilled he is in the martial arts? Ultimately Ran'jit just used what is effectively an energy attack to win his first fight.

[Bright-Flower]

Honestly, Sephiroth had better characterization, I'd say. Pre-Jenova, he was much like Zenos, I suppose, but the very fact that learning about Jenova upset him the way that it did indicates to me that he DID have some very human weaknesses (and he reacted to those weaknesses in pretty much the worst way imaginable). I'd say Zenos is a lot more like Kefka, a bad egg from cradle to grave. Kefka, though, was more entertaining, given that he was such a loon.


I question the assumption that being "more rejoined" would have any effect on one's martial prowess. It makes one more capable of Creation, we know, but the Ancients may very well have been noodle-armed wimps when it comes to combat. Certainly it's the case that when we engage Ascians in combat, the Ascians rarely fight us hand-to-hand, instead whaling on us with big ol' balls of chaos energy or whatever. Our bout with Elidibus in Zeno's body was an exception - but the guy had possessed that body specifically to go toe-to-toe with us in that way.

Kefka went crazy because he was the first one to get the magitek treatment thing but the process wasn't perfected and it snapped his mind. Zenos would be a closer analog I think if his Resonant proecdure was responsible for making him a sociopath but we see even in his childhood he had these issues in his short story.

To be fair though that brief bit of Kefka backstory is very easy to miss and ultimately not all that relevant.

I was actually worried that Solus was going to be a Gehstal/Kefka mix in the SB patches but thankfully he turned out much better than expected in 5.0.

[Absimiliard]

Honestly, Sephiroth had better characterization, I'd say. Pre-Jenova, he was much like Zenos, I suppose, but the very fact that learning about Jenova upset him the way that it did indicates to me that he DID have some very human weaknesses (and he reacted to those weaknesses in pretty much the worst way imaginable). I'd say Zenos is a lot more like Kefka, a bad egg from cradle to grave. Kefka, though, was more entertaining, given that he was such a loon.

You are not wrong. Though, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't Kefka driven insane by the infusion that gave him the ability to use magic? I don't actually recall reading too much about the way he was before magitek infusion, but I believe Celes, Leo, or some other NPC with personal knowledge of him from the old days mentioned that he wasn't a complete nutter back then. .... Kefka's still pretty comical either way, though. >_> I would love for them to introduce a villain based on him, but I doubt they will since we've already had him as a superboss.

[Bright-Flower]

You are not wrong. Though, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't Kefka driven insane by the infusion that gave him the ability to use magic? I don't actually recall reading too much about the way he was before magitek infusion, but I believe Celes, Leo, or some other NPC with personal knowledge of him from the old days mentioned that he wasn't a complete nutter back then. .... Kefka's still pretty comical either way, though. >_> I would love for them to introduce a villain based on him, but I doubt they will since we've already had him as a superboss.

It's a random npc that is easy to miss that mentions it. Going off memory, it's in Vector after your dinner with the Emperor and temporary alliance. You can go back north and talk to a random npc that mentions how Kefka was the first test subject and his mind snapped because the procedure wasn't perfected.

[RyuDragnier]

I had wondered that myself. Where is the Source's reflection of Ran'jit?

If we're going by people who do not look similar to their other selves...I'd suspect it'd be Raubahn. He fits the pre-requisites of being a powerful fighter and has fought countless battles, and we've never fought him when he was at full strength (since he lost one arm). Said battle resulted in us barely overpowering him, despite him having only a single arm at that time. If there's anybody I'd say comes close to that level of power on the Source, it's definitely Raubahn.

[Cilia]

Honestly, Sephiroth had better characterization, I'd say. Pre-Jenova, he was much like Zenos, I suppose, but the very fact that learning about Jenova upset him the way that it did indicates to me that he DID have some very human weaknesses (and he reacted to those weaknesses in pretty much the worst way imaginable). I'd say Zenos is a lot more like Kefka, a bad egg from cradle to grave. Kefka, though, was more entertaining, given that he was such a loon.

Ehh... I have to disagree that pre-madness Sephiroth was like Zenos. VII doesn't give much of a look at him, but Crisis Core shows a lot more of his personality before Nibelheim; in there he's shown as distant, but amiable enough once you get to know him.

As for Kefka... yes and no. Kefka's madness stems mostly from the imperfect magitek infusion; Zenos definitely went crazier after becoming Resonant, but what we saw was just his already-present madness coming to the forefront. After his failed suicide and body surf back to his original vessel though, he seems to have gone even crazier...

... but, I don't really know who to compare Zenos to, if any other villain is applicable. He's more of a destructive force of nature than a character proper. I'd say like Yu Yevon, or whatever... right down to the possessing summons bit... but... whatever...

[Absimiliard]

... but, I don't really know who to compare Zenos to, if any other villain is applicable. He's more of a destructive force of nature than a character proper. I'd say like Yu Yevon, or whatever... right down to the possessing summons bit... but... whatever...

It could well be that he draws from several preexisting characters. He's got more than a touch of Kefka's madness, the looks and crazy physical (and later magical) abilities of Sephiroth, and a slew of similarities to Vayne Solidor that include but are not limited to:

- Being princes of their respective technologically advanced empires.
- Actively seeking out ways of overcoming their limitations and attaining greater power.
- Being given dominion over conquered territories.
- Gaining greatly increased abilities through outside means.
- Fusing with another entity to gain additional strength; Shinryu for Zenos, Venat for Vayne.
- Taking on draconic form as a result of the aforementioned fusion. Shinryu for Zenos, again, and parts of the technologically advanced Bahamut airship for Vayne.
- Merging with named dragons from the Final Fantasy franchise. Granted, the airship Bahamut was not a dragon, but the form Vayne took on after fusing with its parts was.

One key difference, however, is that Vayne is not truly evil. He is doing what he personally believes to be right - as is his otherworldly benefactor, Venat. Personality-wise I'm not sure Zenos really conforms to anything beyond being every bit as nuts as Kefka.

[Alleo]

Well, given that Ran'jit's greatest attack was a long range one-hit KO lightning strike, does it even matter how good skilled he is in the martial arts? Ultimately Ran'jit just used what is effectively an energy attack to win his first fight.

Did he use that again in other fights? (Cant remember right now) Because we never even once thought about a way to stop that in future fights but at the last one this was no problem anymore? And he had used it on the scions before that in the first fight so its not like we did not see it and could have at least tried to move away from that.