Ran'jit's strength makes no sense

[Theodric]

Unwinnable fights are perfectly fine to me and have been a staple of many JRPG's and in quite a few of the other Final Fantasy games. The only people who seem to have an issue with them are those who want to be able to slaughter or subdue any and all who dare to stand in their way, usually under the pretense of 'realism'. Though that realism, as pointed out earlier, mysteriously doesn't extend to the player character and their major allies.

Beatrix was never defeated in FF9, despite being fought multiple times. It made her a very memorable character, especially since she sided with your party after a certain point in the game. I just don't understand how some you can seriously imagine a diminutive 'waifu' player character performing the various feats that they do in-game but somehow it's too much for a hardened, seasoned combatant like Ran'jit to be successful at driving your character off.

Here's hoping we see more situations like it in the future!

[SaberMaxwell]

You're better than baseless ad hominem, Theodric. My statement was there are better ways to do unwinnable fights than "lol I kill u now". I think my statements were perfectly reasonable and my examples were relevant in regards to my opinion that there are better ways to handle that particular narrative beat.

[Riastrad]

Honestly, having a fight I was clearly winning (perks of being a warrior allowed me to get him to 40% in the first fight) go the other way due to "omg he's so cool and I wish had his scythe cause he's sooo cooool with his dragon" gimmick is getting old.

We were around the same narrative stand point in Stormblood when Rhalgr's Reach was attacked and Zenos beat us. It's just lazy story telling to have an unwinnable fight (again, in the same point in the story as last expansion) just to set it all up. Particularly when we don't even get exposition on what his power was. We get that with Zenos but not even a hint as what Gakumatz is or was. Once is acceptable, twice is a pattern.

How about this: Have a win state and a fail state. That way if I play well enough to actually beat the big bad guy/girl/bootlicker, I get a change in narrative so I can feel like the hero (and have my ego stroked), while everyone who loses has another narrative.

[Theodric]

You're better than baseless ad hominem, Theodric. My statement was there are better ways to do unwinnable fights than "lol I kill u now". I think my statements were perfectly reasonable and my examples were relevant in regards to my opinion that there are better ways to handle that particular narrative beat.

I was being playful.

My apologies if it seemed to be aimed at you, specifically, it was meant as a more general statement. My take on it is that whilst things could be handled better, it's usually only the antagonists that are held under such scrutiny. If a new protagonist emerges and they're shown to be a competent fighter, nobody tends to question how they're able to stand toe to toe with their opponents. Yet if an antagonist is introduced and they're shown to be a competent fighter there's a lot more skepticism.

I just don't understand it. Heck, I don't particularly like it when the game bends over backwards to stroke the Warrior of Light's ego by telling him how unique and amazing he is. Putting aside that every other player character is told the exact same thing, it just makes for a bland story if they're not challenged harshly every now and then. Ran'jit served his purpose well in that regard, I thought. We knew enough to get an idea that he was a powerful foe - and his unfamiliar fighting style caught our character and his allies off guard. I don't think it needed some deep explanation.

[Riastrad]

I just don't understand it. Heck, I don't particularly like it when the game bends over backwards to stroke the Warrior of Light's ego by telling him how unique and amazing he is. Putting aside that every other player character is told the exact same thing, it just makes for a bland story if they're not challenged harshly every now and then. Ran'jit served his purpose well in that regard, I thought. We knew enough to get an idea that he was a powerful foe - and his unfamiliar fighting style caught our character and his allies off guard. I don't think it needed some deep explanation.

I can't understand why someone would want to lose. You know it's going to end with us being saved by <insert friend here>. What thrilling story telling considering that has happened every time we are forced to lose a fight. Sorry not sorry, we are not some run of the mill soldier or mercenary. Some rando fighting us is always going to to have predictable results. We will always win in the end. It's not like they can kill off our character and/or force the player to never play again.

Become what you must. Become the Japanese video game protagonist.

[Cilia]

Ran'jit's strength now makes sense - he has magical kung fu from a region beyond Norvrandt. This makes me question how he's lived as long as he has though, given the Flood was a century ago. (Maybe that's why he looks kind of haggard; he used magic to extend his lifespan?)

I just don't understand how some you can seriously imagine a diminutive 'waifu' player character performing the various feats that they do in-game but somehow it's too much for a hardened, seasoned combatant like Ran'jit to be successful at driving your character off.

How petty. At this point, the diminutive 'waifu's have become as battle-hardened and seasoned as any other PC.

If a new protagonist emerges and they're shown to be a competent fighter, nobody tends to question how they're able to stand toe to toe with their opponents. Yet if an antagonist is introduced and they're shown to be a competent fighter there's a lot more skepticism.

The difference is that new protagonists are often introduced fighting on our side, while new antagonists are usually introduced fighting against us. The Warrior of [Light / Darkness] has crossed the width and breadth of the land, slaying countless foes both important and not. A kung fu monk being able to defeat us because of his magical kung fu drastically downplays the PC's ability to learn and adapt to a changing battlefield by implying that their unfamiliarity with Ran'jit's combat style is the main reason we lost to him... even though they have fought in extreme situations multiple times before, adapted, and persevered.

Even if expertly trained, Ran'jit is still just one man. The PC has gone up against the most powerful extant beings known on both worlds (such as Zenos, a man so powerful and skilled he can single-handedly turn the tide of a battle or war) and beyond and come out on top. Losing because he has magical kung fu is a bit silly, in my opinion.

Conversely new protagonists are often introduced fighting alongside and/or saving us, showing they can match (though not exceed) our mettle.

[Edax]

Unwinnable fights are perfectly fine to me and have been a staple of many JRPG's and in quite a few of the other Final Fantasy games. The only people who seem to have an issue with them are those who want to be able to slaughter or subdue any and all who dare to stand in their way, usually under the pretense of 'realism'.!

You're wrong, there are other people who have problems with unwinnable fights. For one, these fights can be an absolute waste of time. Other JRPGs like Tales of Symphonia are able to make unwinnable boss fights more dynamic by allowing you to win some of the fights in the sequence and creating different cutscenes acknowledging this. By just having Ranjit waste 10 minutes of his and our time in a pointless fight, just to click an "I win" button is extremely unsatisfying, it has nothing to do with players needing

to be able to slaughter or subdue any and all who dare to stand in their way

[Avidria]

Unwinnable fights are perfectly fine to me and have been a staple of many JRPG's and in quite a few of the other Final Fantasy games. The only people who seem to have an issue with them are those who want to be able to slaughter or subdue any and all who dare to stand in their way, usually under the pretense of 'realism'. Though that realism, as pointed out earlier, mysteriously doesn't extend to the player character and their major allies.

Beatrix was never defeated in FF9, despite being fought multiple times. It made her a very memorable character, especially since she sided with your party after a certain point in the game. I just don't understand how some you can seriously imagine a diminutive 'waifu' player character performing the various feats that they do in-game but somehow it's too much for a hardened, seasoned combatant like Ran'jit to be successful at driving your character off.

Here's hoping we see more situations like it in the future!

I'm fine with unwinnable fights if it's well done and believable. I was even fine with Zenos for the most part, because he's got his own kinda power and the right kind of reckless zeal and obsession to drive himself to all kinds of lengths. I do think they had us get lolstomped by him just a few too many times, though... or at the very least, from a gameplay perspective, my *god* those fights dragged on. But the final battle and final cutscene where we defeated him was satisfying to me. It really felt like we grew to the point of being strong enough to win that fight.

With Ran'jit I just... didn't feel it.He just kept beating us and coming back and beating us again to the point where it was almost annoying, like a hound dog just chasing us, and the whole time he's got me wondering how? How's he doing it? What technique is he using, what power does he have that we don't know about? And then. Nothing. He's just an ordinary (well trained and experienced) guy, and we kill him in a relatively short and easy 1 on 1 battle because... reasons, I guess.

Which... you know, I think what irritates me most is that he had so much potential. He was set up to be a serious threat, someone strong and clever, someone who's bitter and angry and whose lost and lost again and again and has decided that fighting the end just isn't worth it anymore. It's hinted at, over and over, but in the end he just... falls over and dies. I didn't feel like I earned that win, and it just wasn't satisfying at all.

It was a disappointing end for a character chock full of unused potential.

[Absimiliard]

I'm fine with unwinnable fights if it's well done and believable. I was even fine with Zenos for the most part, because he's got his own kinda power and the right kind of reckless zeal and obsession to drive himself to all kinds of lengths. I do think they had us get lolstomped by him just a few too many times, though... or at the very least, from a gameplay perspective, my *god* those fights dragged on. But the final battle and final cutscene where we defeated him was satisfying to me. It really felt like we grew to the point of being strong enough to win that fight.

You know the funny (and possibly dumb) thing about this? They said us defeating Zenos was a miracle. I.e. he's actually still stronger than the Warrior of Light by an apparently pretty significant margin. My guess would be that him fusing with a primal to fight someone whose specialty is killing primals might have been his downfall there.

[Theodric]

The Warrior of Light has been built up over time, sure, though they're not going to spend the same amount of time building up each and every antagonist we face. All we needed to know was that Ran'jit was a seasoned, veteran combatant and the leader of a powerful army. The logical assumption is that he is a threat and that his fighting style was something that the Warrior of Light had not encountered.

It seems to me that it's more a matter of personal tastes than something the writers have done incorrectly. Even with all the reasoning behind Zenos there were still people who didn't like the idea of their character losing to him. Sure, the writers could have done more with Ran'jit but even if they did, it still wouldn't be enough for some people.