Ran'jit's strength makes no sense

[YianKutku]

Ran'jit's strength now makes sense - he has magical kung fu from a region beyond Norvrandt. This makes me question how he's lived as long as he has though, given the Flood was a century ago. (Maybe that's why he looks kind of haggard; he used magic to extend his lifespan?)

My initial impression was that Ran'jit's techniques were passed down through the survivors of that non-Norvrandt ("Vrandtic" is the adjective, if I recall) region, as well as their cultures and naming conventions. I believe the description of the A-rank hunt Huracan says it's the familiar his father used, and it's speculated to still be around because Ran'jit's father was turned into a Sin Eater, which means Ran'jit's father was present in Norvrandt after the Flood. So we have kind of an upper bound on that timeline.

However, Ran'jit also implies that he's been broken by seeing several generations of Minfilias die, which makes me wonder how many of these generations there have been, given it has been a century since the Flood of Light. Assuming each Minfilia lived for about fifteen years (and ignoring the horrific implications of that hypothesis), there should be about six generations since the Flood of Light, especially since it's stated that there are "some years" between Minfilias. Which would certainly be enough to emotionally break a man like Ran'jit, but also imply that he's been around for every generation.

So it's entirely possible he's been able to prolong his life and effective combat ability through either magic, or sheer badass-ness.

[Absimiliard]

I still think it's the mustache and eyebrows.

[LineageRazor]

I wonder how much of the complaints about Ran'jit and similar characters stem from some people being bitter that their glassy eyed waifu characters are actually given a run for their money and can't just cut through anything and everything put before them? I found him to be a pretty interesting character - a former hero with a tragic past broken by the bleak fate of the world.

To be fair, I never wanted my glassy-eyed waifu to instantly be the best at everything she does. I much preferred the FFXI paradigm, in which my character was involved in some incredible things, and certainly talented, but at the end of the day was just another adventurer among many, and treated as such.

I've come to terms with the fact that Lineage is a paragon among paragons, though, after having it beaten into me for so many years. It's thoroughly baked into the game, and there's not much point in complaining about it now. However, this means that when an exception occurs, like Zenos or Ran'jit, I ask WHY. It's not an unreasonable question to ask. What makes these challenges so exceptional, after having successfully faced what we have?

Personally, I'm satisfied with Ran'jit's explanation. He's a thoroughly seasoned warrior utilizing an esoteric fighting style unfamiliar to us. It begs the question as to why we've not run into similar seasoned warriors on the Source (None interested in facing us? Not even for coin, hired by the Garleans?), but it makes sense that a century of experience could give him an unexpected edge. Zenos's overwhelming strength is a bit less palatable. He's pretty much that strong just because of natural talent, honed by sociopathy and narcissism.

With Ran'jit I just... didn't feel it.He just kept beating us and coming back and beating us again to the point where it was almost annoying, like a hound dog just chasing us, and the whole time he's got me wondering how? How's he doing it? What technique is he using, what power does he have that we don't know about? And then. Nothing. He's just an ordinary (well trained and experienced) guy, and we kill him in a relatively short and easy 1 on 1 battle because... reasons, I guess.

To be fair, we only fight Ran'jit three times (once as Thancred), and in those there times, he only beats us once. Thancred's is a narrow victory, and WoL's final bout is decisive. It's why the "secret trick that only works once" theory some have holds up.

So it's entirely possible he's been able to prolong his life and effective combat ability through either magic, or sheer badass-ness.

I think the timeline works out, all right. If we assume that Ran'jit is 120 now (a remarkable lifespan, but not outrageous) and that he was talented beyond his years at 20, he may have been assigned to work with the first Oracle of Light when she appeared. When she passed, and a new Oracle appeared, he may have been assigned to her by default due to his previous experience working with an Oracle. And so on, over time becoming the Oracle "subject matter expert", as it were.

[Riastrad]

Honestly, having a fight I was clearly winning (perks of being a warrior allowed me to get him to 40% in the first fight) go the other way due to "omg he's so cool and I wish had his scythe cause he's sooo cooool with his dragon" gimmick is getting old.

We were around the same narrative stand point in Stormblood when Rhalgr's Reach was attacked and Zenos beat us. It's just lazy story telling to have an unwinnable fight (again, in the same point in the story as last expansion) just to set it all up. Particularly when we don't even get exposition on what his power was. We get that with Zenos but not even a hint as what Gakumatz is or was. Once is acceptable, twice is a pattern.

How about this: Have a win state and a fail state. That way if I play well enough to actually beat the big bad guy/girl/bootlicker, I get a change in narrative so I can feel like the hero (and have my ego stroked), while everyone who loses has another narrative.

[Avidria]

Unwinnable fights are perfectly fine to me and have been a staple of many JRPG's and in quite a few of the other Final Fantasy games. The only people who seem to have an issue with them are those who want to be able to slaughter or subdue any and all who dare to stand in their way, usually under the pretense of 'realism'. Though that realism, as pointed out earlier, mysteriously doesn't extend to the player character and their major allies.

Beatrix was never defeated in FF9, despite being fought multiple times. It made her a very memorable character, especially since she sided with your party after a certain point in the game. I just don't understand how some you can seriously imagine a diminutive 'waifu' player character performing the various feats that they do in-game but somehow it's too much for a hardened, seasoned combatant like Ran'jit to be successful at driving your character off.

Here's hoping we see more situations like it in the future!

I'm fine with unwinnable fights if it's well done and believable. I was even fine with Zenos for the most part, because he's got his own kinda power and the right kind of reckless zeal and obsession to drive himself to all kinds of lengths. I do think they had us get lolstomped by him just a few too many times, though... or at the very least, from a gameplay perspective, my *god* those fights dragged on. But the final battle and final cutscene where we defeated him was satisfying to me. It really felt like we grew to the point of being strong enough to win that fight.

With Ran'jit I just... didn't feel it.He just kept beating us and coming back and beating us again to the point where it was almost annoying, like a hound dog just chasing us, and the whole time he's got me wondering how? How's he doing it? What technique is he using, what power does he have that we don't know about? And then. Nothing. He's just an ordinary (well trained and experienced) guy, and we kill him in a relatively short and easy 1 on 1 battle because... reasons, I guess.

Which... you know, I think what irritates me most is that he had so much potential. He was set up to be a serious threat, someone strong and clever, someone who's bitter and angry and whose lost and lost again and again and has decided that fighting the end just isn't worth it anymore. It's hinted at, over and over, but in the end he just... falls over and dies. I didn't feel like I earned that win, and it just wasn't satisfying at all.

It was a disappointing end for a character chock full of unused potential.

[Absimiliard]

I'm fine with unwinnable fights if it's well done and believable. I was even fine with Zenos for the most part, because he's got his own kinda power and the right kind of reckless zeal and obsession to drive himself to all kinds of lengths. I do think they had us get lolstomped by him just a few too many times, though... or at the very least, from a gameplay perspective, my *god* those fights dragged on. But the final battle and final cutscene where we defeated him was satisfying to me. It really felt like we grew to the point of being strong enough to win that fight.

You know the funny (and possibly dumb) thing about this? They said us defeating Zenos was a miracle. I.e. he's actually still stronger than the Warrior of Light by an apparently pretty significant margin. My guess would be that him fusing with a primal to fight someone whose specialty is killing primals might have been his downfall there.

[Theodric]

The Warrior of Light has been built up over time, sure, though they're not going to spend the same amount of time building up each and every antagonist we face. All we needed to know was that Ran'jit was a seasoned, veteran combatant and the leader of a powerful army. The logical assumption is that he is a threat and that his fighting style was something that the Warrior of Light had not encountered.

It seems to me that it's more a matter of personal tastes than something the writers have done incorrectly. Even with all the reasoning behind Zenos there were still people who didn't like the idea of their character losing to him. Sure, the writers could have done more with Ran'jit but even if they did, it still wouldn't be enough for some people.

[Gerel]

The Warrior of Light has been built up over time, sure, though they're not going to spend the same amount of time building up each and every antagonist we face. All we needed to know was that Ran'jit was a seasoned, veteran combatant and the leader of a powerful army. The logical assumption is that he is a threat and that his fighting style was something that the Warrior of Light had not encountered.

It seems to me that it's more a matter of personal tastes than something the writers have done incorrectly. Even with all the reasoning behind Zenos there were still people who didn't like the idea of their character losing to him. Sure, the writers could have done more with Ran'jit but even if they did, it still wouldn't be enough for some people.

The thing that still sticks out to me about Ran'jit's strength is that, yes, he certainly has time and experience as strong factors for being as accomplished as he is-- but all in a stagnant world that's on the precipice of collapse. For all that he's seen and done? There would eventually come a point where he's likely seen and faced most of what Norvrandt has to offer in terms of fighting capability. He'd hit a wall.

Meanwhile, we've been fighting adversaries from almost every spectrum of life, from mortal to divine, and have likely seen a great deal of fighting styles and techniques that we ourselves have often come to master. We may lack for time, but in our role as the Warrior of Light? We've probably matched him in experience. So why is unfamiliarity with a fighting style not applied to Ran'jit? Why isn't he somehow set off-kilter due to seeing martial arts and magics developed from an entirely different world?

I don't mind losing a battle here or there, and I can accept that Ran'jit may just be that powerful, but all of the factors that apply to him apply to us.

[Theodric]

The thing that still sticks out to me about Ran'jit's strength is that, yes, he certainly has time and experience as strong factors for being as accomplished as he is-- but all in a stagnant world that's on the precipice of collapse. For all that he's seen and done? There would eventually come a point where he's likely seen and faced most of what Norvrandt has to offer in terms of fighting capability. He'd hit a wall.

Meanwhile, we've been fighting adversaries from almost every spectrum of life, from mortal to divine, and have likely seen a great deal of fighting styles and techniques that we ourselves have often come to master. We may lack for time, but in our role as the Warrior of Light? We've probably matched him in experience. So why is unfamiliarity with a fighting style not applied to Ran'jit? Why isn't he somehow set off-kilter due to seeing martial arts and magics developed from an entirely different world?

I don't mind losing a battle here or there, and I can accept that Ran'jit may just be that powerful, but all of the factors that apply to him apply to us.

To be fair he wouldn't have hit a wall for quite some time, though. Bear in mind that that game exists in a weird time bubble and so although a lot of time has passed in the real world it hasn't been that long since the Warrior of Light first arrived in Gridania/Ul'dah/Limsa. I don't deny that the Warrior of Light has accomplished a lot but he still doesn't know everything there is to know about battle.

I'd also point out that Sin Eaters come in quite a vast number of varieties, each needing to be dealt with differently. To say nothing of the various other threats present across Norvrandt. In addition, simply being wounded by a Sin Eater is often enough to condemn someone to the unfortunate fate of either turning into one instantly or slowly devolving into one over time.

So I took it as him being a powerful foe by virtue of living and surviving long enough to outlast many others. Much like the Warrior of Light, Ran'jit lost a lot of people he presumably cared for. Friends, family, the various 'Minfilia' girls, comrades and so on.

One might even argue that some of those we face have lost far more than the Warrior of Light and as such something breaks in them that cannot be repaired. Yet they still have that drive to push onwards, further fueling their ability to fight.

That's how I see it, at least.

[Gerel]

To be fair he wouldn't have hit a wall for quite some time, though. Bear in mind that that game exists in a weird time bubble and so although a lot of time has passed in the real world it hasn't been that long since the Warrior of Light first arrived in Gridania/Ul'dah/Limsa. I don't deny that the Warrior of Light has accomplished a lot but he still doesn't know everything there is to know about battle.

I'd also point out that Sin Eaters come in quite a vast number of varieties, each needing to be dealt with differently. To say nothing of the various other threats present across Norvrandt. In addition, simply being wounded by a Sin Eater is often enough to condemn someone to the unfortunate fate of either turning into one instantly or slowly devolving into one over time.

So I took it as him being a powerful foe by virtue of living and surviving long enough to outlast many others. Much like the Warrior of Light, Ran'jit lost a lot of people he presumably cared for. Friends, family, the various 'Minfilia' girls, comrades and so on.

One might even argue that some of those we face have lost far more than the Warrior of Light and as such something breaks in them that cannot be repaired. Yet they still have that drive to push onwards, further fueling their ability to fight.

That's how I see it, at least.

Does the Warrior of Light know everything about battle? Far from it. There's still always something to learn, something to glean from the world, and that's the point of the Warrior of Light's existence: they're an avatar of Hydaelyn's will for creatures to learn, hear, and think. That's why they continuously rise above the rest and encompass more than their corner of the world. But that's the inherent issue with the First and Norvrandt.

They've lost so much of their culture, history, and even their very world.

Are Sin Eaters a threat? Sure. But they're also creatures of apparent instinct who can be studied rather thoroughly to predict how they'll act. To the point where them -acting differently- is what gets people more than a little worried. Ran'jit has had far more time than most, and eventually, I feel a man who's at the head of the Eulmore military would begin to figure things out from a tactical standpoint.

As for virtue of being powerful by sheer will? I can also accept that. Plenty of people pull through on that explanation, like Thancred. But the Warrior of Light is often portrayed as an empathetic figure who's far more prone to taking on the weight of those they encounter. Can see that much in the Dark Knight storylines. They, personally, may not have lost as much as the rest of the world--but they do experience it keenly. Almost to an obsessive level. They just bury it deep, deep down because they're the "chosen hero" who has to carry the world on their shoulders.

It still doesn't address, though, that Ran'jit's advantages over us could just as easily be flipped around and used on him narratively. Which I think is his ultimate downfall. He's not a freak of nature like Zenos, and I think he would've better suited us as a tactical foil--not an opponent we beat down. They should've emphasized his role as head of Eulmore's military might far, far more.