(Spoiler) About amaurots downfall

[SaitoHikari]

This thread reminded me of a plot point in ARR that I don’t think has been re-addressed yet.

Remember when Midgardsormr sealed our blessing? We assumed he did it because we were draining too much aether from Hydaelyn, but it’s now looking more and more likely that this wasn’t the case.

I’m beginning to wonder a few things.

1) Consider that the people of Amarout had vast power, but they also didn’t know hardship. They kept kicking the can down the road even after all the signs of an impending threat, then got completely blindsided. I wonder if Midgardsormr’s trial was a way to prevent complacency in us, and force us to adapt and stay vigilant. When we regain the blessing, we came out of the experience much stronger as a result. Perhaps we suffer in order to find strength we didn’t know we had.

As a bonus, the sealing also did cause several Ascians to underestimate us enough to kick us aside, rather than immediately killing us. The first time it happened with Nairbrales with us later killing him, the other Ascians recognized it as a problem, but otherwise continued as they were. The second time around, we ended up regaining our blessing not soon after, and only then did the two Ascians try to kill us, only to end up dying too.

2) The vision of the dark crystal we had. Hydaelyn did speak to us during that, but I wonder if it was actually a memory from the past?

3) Going off my first point, I wonder if Hydaelyn knows more about the threat that ended Amarout. If Hydaelyn’s only purpose was to keep Zodiark in check, there were probably far more efficient ways than to literally split all of reality (and somehow have three Overlords escape with all their memories intact). Maybe it was also an effort to split whatever was responsible for the disaster, to buy time to learn more about what it really was AND try to raise champions that would be better equipped to fight it at a moment’s notice, in case it ever came back.

After all, one could say Amarout was undone by communal inaction. Emet-Selch (or perhaps Amarout society in general) seemed to have a particular disdain for heroes, but it might have been what was needed to combat the threat.

[YianKutku]

As a bonus, the sealing also did cause several Ascians to underestimate us enough to kick us aside, rather than immediately killing us. The first time it happened with Nairbrales with us later killing him, the other Ascians recognized it as a problem, but otherwise continued as they were. The second time around, we ended up regaining our blessing not soon after, and only then did the two Ascians try to kill us, only to end up dying too.

Tangentially, I like that Shadowbringers does explain why the Ascians seemed rather unmoved by Nabriales's death (and previously Emmerololth, and then Mitron and Loghrif). For Sundered Ascians, the reaction to their demise was literally "no worries, more where they came from".

Meanwhile Lahabrea's death was waved aside through the explanation of "well, nobody liked him anyway".

[Lauront]

Tangentially, I like that Shadowbringers does explain why the Ascians seemed rather unmoved by Nabriales's death (and previously Emmerololth, and then Mitron and Loghrif). For Sundered Ascians, the reaction to their demise was literally "no worries, more where they came from".

Meanwhile Lahabrea's death was waved aside through the explanation of "well, nobody liked him anyway".

Of those, only Nabriales is really confirmed dead. Emmerololth, Mitron and Loghrif's permanent destruction is speculative at this point in time, and Lahabrea, we just assume that Nidhogg's Eyes sufficed to do the trick.

While they do have potential flaws and their society isn't portrayed as perfect, I wouldn't consider this a flaw (ie. a negative character trait). Rather it's an uncontrollable part of their nature that they can't be blamed for.

Their more conscious use of creation magic might be viewed differently, depending on more information we don't have yet, but if just thinking of something terrifying is enough to cause that thing to spontaneously come into true existance, and once they've had the thought it's too late, there's not a great deal they can do about it besides try very hard to not let anyone think of terrifying things.

In my view, whilst there are obviously flaws, some of them are no doubt aspects of their society that strike us as strange but which made sense to them, and therefore it is down to their unfamiliarity that we call them "flaws". I also think that the exercise of Creation magicks was quite a deliberate act and one they had learnt to be responsible and cautious about, in the main. I imagine there was little risk from regular thought running amok in that way, which is why it took that odd sound for matters to go awry, so I agree, you can't really blame them for the course of events given what we know so far.

I feel like this could actually be a key element of what happened.

"The will of the star should represent life and activity, so we should base it around the aspect of Darkness," reason the members of the Convocation.

"But wait," says the fourteenth, "is it a good idea for it to be just Darkness? Shouldn't we balance it with an aspect of Light as well?"

The others refuse, the fourteenth leaves and starts working out how to create a counterpart balance that can 'add on' to Zodiark after the initial summoning.

I think that take on Darkness actually makes quite some sense, and it avoids pushing the Convocation into a nefarious position, or just making it something ad hoc, like the influence on the aether of those monstrosities being present at the time of the summoning. I also like to think that the enervation aspect and their constant warring ended up going too far, with the whole Sundering on the scale it occurred being unintentional; however, Elidibus mentions it and the subsequent memory wipe with regard to it was quite expressly intended - but maybe that was only after things went into overdrive and there was not much else that could be done.

[Avidria]

It was stated in MSQ dialogue, yes. During the part where you first explore Amaurot, and talk with some unnamed Amaurotines about the "current" (to them) situation. The NPC in specific is called "Anxious Amaurotine", during the quest "The End of a World".



Please tell me I'm not the only one to immediately think of Lavos.

Oh snap, can't believe I missed that. I remember talking to him but apparently my brain just decided to chuck that information out the window xD Thanks!

On the whole, a pretty horrifying fate. It does make me wonder about more things, though. Heck, I just have a ton of questions, can't even list them all... very curious to see what answers we get, though.

Also, not familiar with Lavos, but after a skim of the wiki that would certainly be an interesting way to go.

In my view, whilst there are obviously flaws, some of them are no doubt aspects of their society that strike us as strange but which made sense to them, and therefore it is down to their unfamiliarity that we call them "flaws". I also think that the exercise of Creation magicks was quite a deliberate act and one they had learnt to be responsible and cautious about, in the main. I imagine there was little risk from regular thought running amok in that way, which is why it took that odd sound for matters to go awry, so I agree, you can't really blame them for the course of events given what we know so far.

I kind of got the impression they had to be cautious and careful with their creation power out of necessity. They seemed to have strict rules on what 'creations' could or couldn't be shared (likely to keep dangerous things in check), and based on what Hythlodaeus said and on the side quest to test that one Amaurotine's creations, their creations did seem prone to going in unintended directions. Nowhere near the level of sideways that things went when they lost control entirely, though - so I wouldn't blame them (barring some new revelation we haven't seen yet), only say that they seemed almost primed for this type of catastrophe.

A very powerful people, able to bring everything from buildings to lifeforms into existence with thought and personal aether alone, whose stray thought is enough to alter that creation like a stray brush stroke changes a painting? For something like that Sound, their city was just kindling waiting for the right fire.