Eden Savage Coffers

[HyoMinPark]

That being said, you can also keep running until you get loot drops as well, and aren't limited to once a week like the regular ones are, so your odds of getting loot increase substantially from that alone.

You can’t do that with Savage. Once you clear, that’s your clear and your loot drops for the week until they lift the restrictions.

for people that keep saying: Pages, books or whatever you call me.

You need those... not only for the gear but for the items like the twine to upgrade the currency gear.
Books are also 100% drop so for me, doesnt count at all, you need a good chunk of them for only 1 item.

I mean, they could have just kept the Coil system—Coil didn’t drop pages, so if your gear didn’t drop that week, you were SOL and had to keep waiting with no other way to get the gear you need. At least with the pages, you can save up for the drops you’d need. Yes, you could also need them for the upgrade pieces...but those have always been “everyone can Need”. So, if you win it, you win it. If you don’t, you don’t. The upgrade pieces are still, more or less, on the old system.

Let's clear something about the dead coffers you would get at the end of the progress.

First: Those were not dead to begin with,anyone could get them and I doubt that at the end of the run none wanted that piece for a second job.

Not necessarily—it was quite possible with the old system for dead gear to drop multiple times (and hit the floor multiple times) if a static had zero use for it for people’s mains or secondaries.

During Alphascape, the Omega Gloves of Aiming dropped five weeks in a row for my static. Those gloves weren’t BiS for myself (BRD) or for the MCH we originally had. They hit the floor each time they dropped because no one aside from us secondaried or played physical ranged. We also had a similar issue with the Omega Shoes of Healing, which, if I recall, also weren’t BiS, and I was the only one with a healer secondary—so they started hitting the floor as well. Oh, and the DRG Spear dropped like 4 times. Only one of the players in my old static played DRG—I rolled on it eventually because why not; but I don’t play melee that often, so it’s gone unused.

Third: the rng was on the items, not on the rolls that players would apply making it all less painful to see when lose all 3 items because your roll suck, and to be fair... This isn't extreme, you can't simply rejoin and get something.

How it is less painful to see casting gear drop each week when your static doesn’t run a caster/have anyone that plays caster, but you’ve been waiting for your Aiming body to drop for 8 weeks now (this was the case for me in Alphascape with O12S—lots of Casting bodies...no Aiming ones)? Sure, maybe people would roll on it, but it was also likely they’d just let it hit the floor if they weren’t going to use it (which is what started happening with those body pieces that kept dropping for my group).

Forth: I have all the accessories for my main job but I can drop everything over and over and keep the coffers in my inventory so one day maybe I will change class, while for week people that want to gear up don't have a single 470 item.

I mean, if you don’t need the accessory coffers, and if you aren’t planning on using them for alt jobs, why are you rolling on them? Why not pass so someone else who may actually need the items get them? I fail to see the point of this...point. Unless you’re specifically putting it in there as a “other people could do this” kind of thing.

Fifth: Is it really fair for 1 person to drop everything, just because got luck? Clearing in pf is already hard by itself, adding this to the roulette each time you finish a run, ain't fun i tell you.

I feel like you’d be singing a different tune if you were to luckily win everything each week. RNG isn’t a fair system; Luck isn’t fair. You can have crappy rolls one week... and then the next week suddenly roll 90+ on everything and walk off with it all.


I can’t think of any way to “improve” the coffers—adding in “[Accessory] Coffer of Aiming” would more or less be like the old system—and I haven’t seen you suggest any yourself. The only suggestion I’ve seen is awarding an extra page to those who don’t win a coffer, which I think would be fine.

[BeowulfUltros]

I got on to check forums to complain about the exact same thing. I am 4 weeks in to clearing floors 1-3 and only piece I have is a necklace from week 1. Meanwhile in a group today, one person walked away with 3 drops from one floor. And on floor 3, someone walked away with Legs AND Feet drop. You have got to be 100000% kidding me that loot isn't locked 1 per floor. This is totally asinine and seems common sense. How is it fair this guy can walk out with that much loot in a PUG? "RNG isnt fair" "It could benefit you" OK GREAT points people. No I don't care if it ever benefits me. I'm not going to be happy going into week 5 THE SAME I WAS ON WEEK 0 then suddenly RNGesus hits me with a few drops and I'm suddenly much stronger. No. It should be steady, even if slow steady progression.

The point about statics? Correct you already benefit in a static as being able to choose loot distribution. In top tier statics, that loot is all going to DPS. Let's DRG as an example.. is it really/really fair that a static give ALL loot drops to a DRG, or a MNK first? So how many weeks in a row does the healer/tank have to pass for that DRG/MNK to go god mode? That's still terrible. So yes, a 1 per floor restriction would still create a completely linear static progression except more players would benefit versus 1 getting all the loot.

It is SUPER clear that this loot box system is the superior long term system and possible tweaks from there. However it is also SUPER clear that from JUMP it should have been locked to 1 piece per floor. It benefits both PUGs and statics(enforcing fair distribution while keeping linear progression).

*Yes I am salty about not having ANY gear on week 4.
*No I will NOT feel better about this AT ALL even if suddenly I get a bunch of drops in week 5. Please change the system immediately and I'd be happy to start where I am in week 5 with a locked system.
*Lower cost of book purchases by 1-2. Accs should be 3, other armors should be 4-5. Legs should be 6. It's already gated behind the completion of the upper tier.
*If anyone has a way to ensure Devs see this so they know the problem is out there. The loot box thing is great but it needs to be 1 per floor.

[Vaer]

Add a new round robin option that can be enabled as a loot rule that enforces the 1 piece per person rule and keep the default the same as now. It keeps the flexibility and allows an option where people can make/join groups with the system they prefer.

Is it fair to funnel? Depends who you ask and if people agree to it. If you can kill the boss earlier due to funneling that is a net gain down the line vs. missing all the loot and books from that boss for however many weeks it takes to kill it otherwise. In that case it's a group benefit. You just join the group with the loot rules you want in the end.

[Vidu]

Let's clear something about the dead coffers you would get at the end of the progress.

First: Those were not dead to begin with,anyone could get them and I doubt that at the end of the run none wanted that piece for a second job.

Second: when the item dropped, you couldn't get a second piece of that gear and was because of the unique mechanic of the items, you have one? Can't drop another.

Third: the rng was on the items, not on the rolls that players would apply making it all less painful to see when lose all 3 items because your roll suck, and to be fair... This isn't extreme, you can't simply rejoin and get something.

Forth: I have all the accessories for my main job but I can drop everything over and over and keep the coffers in my inventory so one day maybe I will change class, while for week people that want to gear up don't have a single 470 item.

Fifth: Is it really fair for 1 person to drop everything, just because got luck? Clearing in pf is already hard by itself, adding this to the roulette each time you finish a run, ain't fun i tell you.

If you are not complaining it's probably because
A you dropped stuff
B you are in a static
C you don't care at all

And about statics, my irl job doesn't allow me to have a precise time line for static requirements so I can't join one even if I could.

To adress your points in order:

1) I'm not sure what you mean with "dead coffers" but from the context I'm assuming you're refering to how with the old system loot for jobs not present could drop? If my guess is wrong, please correct me! If I'm right though... I've seen way to many runs where loot dropped to the floor because no one was playing monk as a second job. Or everyone who did play a tank already had that belt. Or even the person who only just got their healer to max level already had one of those rings.

2) Yes, of that one specific item - you could still roll on every other ring, glove, necklace etc. You could only greed, true, but depending on your set-up that would mean rolling against 6 other people still - lets say you have only one melee in the group and this person already got the gear in question. Now everyone else has a 1/7 to roll on that piece of gear. Assuming they even want it.

3) The RNG was actually in both - tanks and healers would always have to roll against each other, dps most often aswell. Granted, your chances were better, but you could still walk away with nothing week after week after week... because you either didnt get drops that were useful to you OR you were outrolled.
I'd rather see useful drops go to someone else than seeing no useful drops for the group at all.

4) If you're concerned about other people not getting their gear: Dont roll on it. Simple as that. No one is making you need on those items.

5) Luck isnt fair, yes. One person getting everything is also highly unlikely - can happen, grats to them, though!

And personally I'm not complaining because...
...I care more about the fun I'm having with those fights than with getting the gear.
...I know that my BiS-gear involves not only Savage-drops, so I know I can relax about them a bit more (aka: I'm not blindly following this idea that raidgear = best gear and instead look around and at my options).
...I am actually in a static - which means that I, as a tank, will most likely not see any gear or see my gear last. But I'm okay with that because again, its more about the fun than my ilvl.
...I rather see someone getting gear thats useful to them than seeing loot that no one wants for the sixth week in a row.

I guess I just have things in regards to those raids that are a lot more important to me than getting those drops. For example having fun with the content itself - I understand that "fun" for some people means getting the highste ilvl, which is fair.
The loot-system will never be "fair" because you'll always roll against other people in some way. Or you'll be at an advantge and be able to just take the gear that dropped for your job out of luck.
The current system at least makes sure that no useless gear drops anymore, which is an improvement. They also need to limit our progress somehow, so they cant just replace the exchange-tokesn with straight out coffers, for example.
The current system allows you to participate in the content and provides you with both an equal chance of winning those items aswell as a safety net should you really have some rotten luck.

[Shamsiel]

Not a bad idea to have 2 different options for loot.

[SleepyNeko]

I would propose that coffers remain and players who do not win anything be awarded a second book. This would mitigate the impact of bad rolls in PF. It would also help tanks and healers in statics that funnel gear towards dps.

I can get behind this idea.

[Shamsiel]

Actual system
First item: 8/8 rolls
Second item: 8/8 rolls
Third item: 8/8 rolls
Forth item: 8/8 rolls


System of loot with box locked after first:
First item: 8/8
Second item: 7/8
Third item: 6/8
Forth item: 5/8
At the end of the day, 4 players have 1 item for sure
Instead of rnjesus given 3 items to 1 player and 1 to another. Or even all 4 for what matters..

[Shamsiel]

Why in normal the loot system is better that savage one?
You are locked with 1 drop each floor on normal mode that give your 450 and not locked on savage where it gives you 470?
Shouldnt be the other way around, so you can gear multiple jobs at 450 and progress with 1 or 2 for the 470?

[CorbinDallas]

Why in normal the loot system is better that savage one?
You are locked with 1 drop each floor on normal mode that give your 450 and not locked on savage where it gives you 470?
Shouldnt be the other way around, so you can gear multiple jobs at 450 and progress with 1 or 2 for the 470?

It's because you can run normal mode again and again until you get your desired loot, once you clear a Savage fight, loot or not, you cannot receive any loot again until reset.

[Shamsiel]

It's because you can run normal mode again and again until you get your desired loot, once you clear a Savage fight, loot or not, you cannot receive any loot again until reset.

Fair enough.