Originally Posted by Moonlite

What I don't understand is here and on reddit I have seen comments that support botting in a way. If the items get badly botted why wouldn't those players just support a vendor instead. Or on the tricky slope increase the amount of types and items retainers can get and adjust the time it takes.

People who support the existence of DoH/L bots under the oft faulty notion that the items players sell are overpriced are indeed basically just arguing against the existence of a crafting/gathering system in general.

They often don't understand the concept of a time/labor cost. People want to charge for the time they spend crafting because that time could be being used for other activities. Botters don't care about that, which is why they'll so readily drop prices as they're not actually spending any time on what they do.

Originally Posted by KageTokage

People who support the existence of DoH/L bots under the oft faulty notion that the items players sell are overpriced are indeed basically just arguing against the existence of a crafting/gathering system in general.
.

This 100%. If you believe something to be overpriced, then simply put in the work to do it yourself, then you will not be paying for it; if enough other people agree that it is too expensive, they will follow suit.

Those who are claim that "bots are good because they lower prices" are missing the point entirely; it is not about fair market economics, but about cheating in general, how it is allowed to happen, and how it undermines a HUGE part of the casual FF14 community through the inaction of enforcement.

Originally Posted by KageTokage

People who support the existence of DoH/L bots under the oft faulty notion that the items players sell are overpriced are indeed basically just arguing against the existence of a crafting/gathering system in general.

I don't support the existence of bots directly, since I still wish for them cheaters to get banned, but I am also not blind. I see that I am essentially profiting from their behavior because, similar to the Chinese IRL they make a lot of stuff way more affordable, which means most players have to grind less.

You wanted a realistic crafting economy? Well here you have it. Including some players breaking the rules (workforce safety, patent rights etc) to offer mass produced goods on the cheap.

In order to give some context to why I don't feel botters are a particular problem on my server:

Date: 17.08.2019 @11:12 CET

Maybe it's (yet again) a region specific issue?

Originally Posted by Oxidized

If you believe something to be overpriced, then simply put in the work to do it yourself, then you will not be paying for it

F A L S E

You will be paying the EXACT SAME AMOUNT because you could have sold the product.
You merely pay with a different currency: time vs Gil.

You statement is the reason why many players who do NOT bot ruin the profit margins of many crafters. They think "if I farmed it myself, the item is free!" and continue to not add it's actual value into the sale price.

Apparently, they've now taken to using trust bots to farm the level 80 MSQ dungeon for goetia tomestones.

Granted, it's still extremely inefficient as it's only 80 tomestones per 30+ minutes but it's better then any of their previous methods they resorted to like PvP or PotD/HoH due to lack of queues and player interaction.

I probably make as much goetia in a few hours as they do over the course of multiple nights just by hunting A/S rank hunts each day, but they're not actually needing to put any effort into it, so...

Originally Posted by KageTokage

Apparently, they've now taken to using trust bots to farm the level 80 MSQ dungeon for goetia tomestones.

Dear Lord, I feel pity for our poor scions.

Some of you people really makes me wish that someone comes up with a way to make a bot that is able to clear savage and sells savage clears at 500k and snatching world firsts to devalue your "precious time" in the same manner you seen to embrace bots to do for people who sink their time into DoL/DoH content so you will know first hand the pleasure that is seeing the content you enjoy losing all value.

Originally Posted by Lunavi

seeing the content you enjoy losing all value.

Sorry to burst your bubble here but I don't raid for the epeen or any artificial competition. I get enough of that crap IRL.
I raid because I enjoy doing challenges with my friends. As such, people that clear the content super fast, sell clear runs or even bot the raids would not influence me or my group in the slightest.

People botting might end up a boon to the general playerbase, if them bots were good enough to do savage, crappy dungeon runs and people raging over no DPS healers / low DPS players would be a thing of the past. *chuckles*

Funsies aside: I still think SE should crack down way harder than they do now. Botting should never be tolerated be it in PvP, raiding (I've actually seen bots in LFR in WoW) or gathering.
I merely don't share the "sky is falling!!11" panic of some of the people here, because from my perspective, crafters, that actually craft for profit and not just for personal use like I do, still make Gil hand over fist compared to folks that do not craft.

Originally Posted by Granyala

I merely don't share the "sky is falling!!11" panic of some of the people here, because from my perspective, crafters, that actually craft for profit and not just for personal use like I do, still make Gil hand over fist compared to folks that do not craft.

Really now? You think high-end DoH/DoL's are making more Gil than high-end DoW/DoM players? I think you might mix up crafters/gatherers with MB flippers, which you don't have to be DoH/DoL to do by any means.

Originally Posted by Lunavi

Really now? You think high-end DoH/DoL's are making more Gil than high-end DoW/DoM players? I think you might mix up crafters/gatherers with MB flippers, which you don't have to be DoH/DoL to do by any means.

Not talking about high end DOW/DOM. Obviously people being able to sell savage clears make a lot of coin. I was more referring to the average player that doesn't have the luxuries. An average crafter still makes a hell of a lot more Gil than the average non crafter. Bots or no bots.

AH-Flippers are their own species entirely and best left out of this discussion.

Tbh I don't really care about the gathering bots. Those leveling bots on the other hand, that induce queue time congestion (server as well duty based), now THOSE are the real problem. Create an alt on Spriggan or Twintania, see for yourself.