Lack of action against gathering bots, it needs to be changed, and soon

[Lunavi]

Bots don't do the selling. That's done by other characters. And in fact, ~60% of gil sold on websites comes from normal players who sell the gil to said websites. As for those who do sell on the market to then sell to websites, if they undercut, that isn't actually bad for the economy at all. Either a savvy marketeer takes advantage of it and buys up the stock (if it's a severe undercut), or the undercut isn't severe enough to cause a significant and permanent drop in price and in fact, it helps to balance the price equilibrium (which is often weighted in the sellers favor).

This is only true in the cases where a player is collecting the resources and not a bot making the resources intended to be limited by playtime by crafters to gather it an infinite resource for anyone to buy at their own accord. While the selling part is often handled by the player themselves due to it being a slightly rougher process (huge understatement) to make an optimal bot for, the collection of resources is actually often bot handled. The only people who short-term benefit out of this are people who do combat related activities exclusively and the botters themselves. Crafters and gatherers suffers heavily from this though as the price is artificially reduced tue to the supply being artificially increased without the demand increasing at all.

[Granyala]

SE needs to takes drastic actions like perma banning/deleting every single account that uses botting.

I think to them that would be too many lost profits (closed accounts and substantial workforce to fight the windmills).
Can't really explain their lax stance on this any other way, esp on those obnoxious RMT bots (that bother me infinitely more than gathering bots do).

[Liam_Harper]

I did.
Only as much as I need for myself though, because the process is mindnumbingly boring.

Exactly. So it's work.

You expect other players to level their gathers to 80, acquire gear and go through a mindnumbingly boring process that even you don't think is worth the current prices, then sell the result of that work for next to nothing?

I think it's mindnumblingly boring too and the prices aren't near enough to tempt me to farm them to sell. I'd rather buy them, because to be honest they're dirt cheap compared to the end products I can make from them. If anything, crafters have never charged less. Sand, ore, mats, crystals, materia and gear prices are at rock bottom this expansion.

[Granyala]

I think it's mindnumblingly boring too and the prices aren't near enough to tempt me to farm them to sell.

As I said: I consider the prices quite good compared to the rather low amount of effort required to gather them.
I just don't farm to sell because I have no use for gil. I already have a medium house, am an omnicrafter myself and can do furnishings I want or gear my classes.

To someone that crafts, gil is mostly useless. To someone that doesn't craft/gather, crafted items are still too expensive because what you get from the game is rather limited unless you luck out on retainer ventures. (though I guess selling the tome materials could be profitable)

Curious question: I consider 5K for a single ore like Tungsten a pretty hefty price. What price would you guys want beyond that? What would you deem appropriate compensation for the amount of "work" you put into gathering resources? Leveling gatherers can be done while watching netflix, so I don't consider it "work" at all.

[AngeliouxRein]

Don't crafters in general use a macro to craft? It doesn't seem all that difficult to be a crafter either. I personally like to gather but can't stand crafting. It's why I stopped leveling crafters in Heavensward. But for me to go out and gather something and it sales for 5k a pop is like a dream on my server. Most everything I gather is more like 500-1000 a pop. Just my 2 gil on this topic.

[HyoMinPark]

Don't crafters in general use a macro to craft? It doesn't seem all that difficult to be a crafter either. I personally like to gather but can't stand crafting. It's why I stopped leveling crafters in Heavensward. But for me to go out and gather something and it sales for 5k a pop is like a dream on my server. Most everything I gather is more like 500-1000 a pop. Just my 2 gil on this topic.

High level crafts are typically done with macros. However, DoH bots leave their scripts running for 24+ hours, if not more, and then flood the markets with the products they make. Some even attempt to dominate markets by severely undercutting anyone who tried to “encroach upon” it.

Crafting isn’t hard by any means. But it should still be rewarding for those who put in the time and effort to level their crafters should they seek to craft for profit. DoH bots can make that very difficult.

[AngeliouxRein]

High level crafts are typically done with macros. However, DoH bots leave their scripts running for 24+ hours, if not more, and then flood the markets with the products they make. Some even attempt to dominate markets by severely undercutting anyone who tried to “encroach upon” it.

Crafting isn’t hard by any means. But it should still be rewarding for those who put in the time and effort to level their crafters should they seek to craft for profit. DoH bots can make that very difficult.

I guess as a gatherer I would like a little more reward for spending time out in the field but that's were yellow and white scripts come in at...sort of. That being said I am not going against bots being removed just trying to see why crafters are feeling a certain way about bots since I figured they are the one benefitting from the low priced gathered items. Since I don't craft anymore, I don't pay attention to the market that deals with crafted material. So can't say I have seen this going on or not on my server and just figured it wasn't even a thing. I mean crafters have been still able to easily make their millions so everything seemed alright when I looked at it that way. Either way, it's an insight on how bots can effect crafters too.

[TwistedTea]

Don't crafters in general use a macro to craft? It doesn't seem all that difficult to be a crafter either. I personally like to gather but can't stand crafting. It's why I stopped leveling crafters in Heavensward. But for me to go out and gather something and it sales for 5k a pop is like a dream on my server. Most everything I gather is more like 500-1000 a pop. Just my 2 gil on this topic.

The fact that there are 1 button macros for HQing crafts from NQ mats,Reuse being OP etc, is another can of worms that SE needs to address;crafting at endgame is too easy.

For me the challenge about crafting is about tracking prices/trends and managing mat supplies.

Especially on volatile items.

If the mats cost you 900k to make an item and the finished product is selling for 1.2 - 2 million,you need to be able study the sales history and determine whether the demand for the item will ensure your item gets bought before someone comes along and undercuts below your cost price. Selling taxes also have to be accounted for.

Usually, once someone undercuts below your cost price,others will follow suit and now you're stuck with the item and looking at a possible loss if the market demand is insufficient to raise prices.

Secondly, it's also about studying market trends and predicting/preparing. A month before SHB dropped, there were certain mats which were selling for 20k and below. Now, some of those mats are selling for 100 - 200k across the data centre.

On the other hand, some of the mats I stocked up, the prices are falling rapidly, so I need to clear my stock on those or hope the demand for them remains the same or goes up.

There are plenty of broke overmelded crafters who don't understand how the market works or things like opportunity costs. For me, the challenge has never been in the actual crafting.

[HyoMinPark]

I guess as a gatherer I would like a little more reward for spending time out in the field but that's were yellow and white scripts come in at...sort of. That being said I am not going against bots being removed just trying to see why crafters are feeling a certain way about bots since I figured they are the one benefitting from the low priced gathered items. Since I don't craft anymore, I don't pay attention to the market that deals with crafted material. So can't say I have seen this going on or not on my server and just figured it wasn't even a thing. I mean crafters have been still able to easily make their millions so everything seemed alright when I looked at it that way. Either way, it's an insight on how bots can effect crafters too.

They only benefit if they directly buy the materials from the bots selling them on the market board. Personally, I prefer to gather my own materials since I have all gatherers maxed out anyways.

And yeah, the crafters can make millions—provided that their markets aren’t overrun by the bots that were causing the problems. The bots on my server dominated the raid food and potion markets throughout Stormblood, so legitimate crafters had to fight them to sell their foods/potions.

[Moonlite]

High level crafts are typically done with macros. However, DoH bots leave their scripts running for 24+ hours, if not more, and then flood the markets with the products they make. Some even attempt to dominate markets by severely undercutting anyone who tried to “encroach upon” it.

Crafting isn’t hard by any means. But it should still be rewarding for those who put in the time and effort to level their crafters should they seek to craft for profit. DoH bots can make that very difficult.

At least on Balmung it has to have some crafting bots for random low stuff that I notice. No one in their right mind makes almost 1500 of random mat sells in stacks of 99 when the only recipes that use it need one or two. They are also not really linked to any leve. The only way I can understand it is if they botted it. They weren't buying up and controlling a market either they had a signature on all the stacks.


What I don't understand is here and on reddit I have seen comments that support botting in a way. If the items get badly botted why wouldn't those players just support a vendor instead. Or on the tricky slope increase the amount of types and items retainers can get and adjust the time it takes.