Can any team comp clear?

[CrashofZenki]

Its basically played out like this: "I dont mind statics and PFs denying a job to be able to clear, as long as it doesnt mean my job gets denied for being Personal DPS only"
Your whole argument of balance will continue the eternal spiral of "Now this job is META" but next week its. oh! "This job is META" Instead of a "Doesnt matter what you bring, you can complete everything with the comp you have as long as you do the mechanics and deal sweet DPS and youll be able to progress at the same pace as every other combination at the same skill level."

[Zerathor]

You're right. I counted in my head and somehow came up with 7.... I wonder whom I left out. Sorry.

it happens. I was actually kind of surprised theres 10 dps jobs now myself that I counted them out lol. Kinda just forget how many jobs are in this game now.

[Wayfinder3]

The primary difference is, my math is rooted in logic, and actual known values. Yours is... entirely speculation on what you want to believe as long as it will support your argument. If I'm wrong, show me where you get these exact values.

And again, we've already seen what happens when utility jobs provide more than a pure damage job, for a very... very... long time. Pure dps jobs become irrelevant. Utility jobs should get more use out of buffing a high personal damage job, not 4 utility jobs jerking eachother off. We don't need another stormblood, we don't need another last half of heavensward. Let the game progress. Sorry if that means you wont be a required job in every composition anymore, but that's how it should be.

Just saying, Alphascape logs for speed killing are immortalized on FFlogs and clearly show a meta where a Pure Dps(BLM) and a Utility Dps(SMN) existed in equal measure and both are all over the Top 10 of those fights. in fact, even SAM was meta for at least 1 fight which at the very least is more than thats ever been said about the job lately. The point still stands though, your idea that if Utility dps are good, Pure dps will fall isn't true and, there is in fact a balance that can be established.
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings/25

[Zerathor]

Just saying, Alphascape logs for speed killing are immortalized on FFlogs and clearly show a meta where a Pure Dps(BLM) and a Utility Dps(SMN) existed in equal measure are both are all over the Top 10 of those fights. in fact, even SAM was meta for at least 1 fight which at the very least is more than thats ever been said about the job lately. The point still stands though, your idea that if Utility dps are good, PUre dps will fall isn't true and there is infact a balance that can be established.
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings/25

And just saying, one of those jobs was desired for progging it, but still got to be high on damage for some reason despite the other one not being desired. All you show is that after a fight is done and everyone has cleared it, some jobs can do better. But for some reason, the jobs that made it easier to clear should also be in the speedrun meta.

[Wayfinder3]

And just saying, one of those jobs was desired for progging it, but still got to be high on damage for some reason despite the other one not being desired.

Do you think it's fair that BLM has 41% of Titan Savage kills compared to RDMs 20%? BLM SHOULD be an outcast for progression because by your logic, it's damage is all it has and damage shouldn't be the only factor that matters in progression. too bad rdm and smn dps is so comparatively lower that BLM has twice as many savage clears as the prog caster which is completely unfair. You don't want balance, you want to get even for the BLM problems of yesterday, now that you're on top. You're spreading fear at any chance of RDM and SMN getting their fair share while being willfully ignorant to the fact that RDM never even had a turn to be the "best one" and they've never asked for it.

[Zerathor]

Do you think it's fair that BLM has 41% of Titan Savage kills compared to RDMs 20%? BLM SHOULD be an outcast for progression because by your logic, it's damage is all it has and damage shouldn't be the only factor that matters in progression. too bad rdm and smn dps is so comparatively lower that BLM has twice as many savage clears as the prog caster which is completely unfair. You don't want balance, you want to get even for the BLM problems of yesterday, now that you're on top. You're spreading fear at any chance of RDM and SMN getting their fair share while being willfully ignorant to the fact that RDM never even had a turn to be the "best one" and they've never asked for it.

You're a fool if you think those blm's weren't on rdm/smn up until the group learned the enrage.

I'll put this in simple terms so that you might get it through your skull. You have 2 jobs to pick. Both will provide the same raid dps after all buffs are accounted for. Do you want the one that has a raise, or the one that does not have a raise? Do you want the one that makes your numbers look pretty, or the one that does not? Stop and think about it for more than 2 seconds, it might just come to you, i believe in you champ.

[Kabooa]

BLM SHOULD be an outcast for progression because by your logic, it's damage is all it has and damage shouldn't be the only factor that matters in progression.

Glad we're all not showing any of that bias. Only us evil Black mages, not wanting to be ostracized for progression.

EDIT: Whelp. I hit my post limit.

Really thought I had one more.

@Kejara. Rank by progress, look at 273. Week 1 clear was possible, they did it, and if you look through the data enough, you can see other groups with bottom 3 and 1 big3 where the big3 can be replaced by a Samurai or a tippity toppity lower 6 and clear.

@Wayfinder

Alright, I kind of get your position, but I have a question for you.

What about those of us -not- in the speedkilling community? I've joined one group for it back in Alte Roite, and while it was fun, it wasn't my thing. I primarily join party finder to A) Progress outside my static and B) help other people get their clears.

Why should my job inherently be weaker for what I want to do, especially when some of those people -really need- that advantage Black Mage can bring? If everyone gets bumped up in DPS, -then the DPS check is higher- in the next tier. You don't honestly think they'd keep it relatively the same despite giving 60% of the dps jobs an increase, do you?

[Wayfinder3]

You're a fool if you think those blm's weren't on rdm/smn up until the group learned the enrage.

I'll put this in simple terms so that you might get it through your skull. You have 2 jobs to pick. Both will provide the same raid dps after all buffs are accounted for. Do you want the one that has a raise, or the one that does not have a raise? Do you want the one that makes your numbers look pretty, or the one that does not? Stop and think about it for more than 2 seconds, it might just come to you, i believe in you champ.

I'm not a fool, unlike you. I deal in facts and whats recorded. If you think RDM is fine being used a condom before being torn off so that BLM can steal the glory of a kill for the 1 niche RDM has in this game. then you're a BLM main thats insane and unwilling to distribute fairly. RDM should have the most clears of fights because it should be the most accessible caster at killing encounters while not being as efficient as BLM. If we look at Eden gate Savage, RDM has the least amount of representation in ALL of the fights and that representation naturally gets lower to a point where double the amount of BLM are killing content then the JOB DESIGNED to clear it.

[Zerathor]

I'm not a fool, unlike you. I deal in facts and whats recorded. If you think RDM is fine being used a condom before being torn off so that BLM can steal the glory of a kill for the 1 niche RDM has in this game. then you're a BLM main insane and unwilling to distribute fairly. RDM should have the most clears of fights because it should be the most accessible caster at killing encounters while not being as efficient as BLM. If we look at Eden gate Savage, RDM has the least amount of representation in ALL of the fights and that representation naturally gets lower to a point where double the amount of BLM are killing content then the JOB DESIGNED to clear it.

alright bud, you want to cherry pick? lets cherry pick.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/23

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/19

Keep pretending it wasn't because raise.

50 bucks says you considered this fair, lmao

[Kejara]

This back and forth isn't really beneficial to any of us. The topic was can any combination clear? The answer to the OP's question was difficult to provide because the question was vague and needed additional qualifiers. In an ever progressing game, time is important attribute to include in your question. The question should have been, can any unique combination of DPS clear Eden savage content in week one when it is competitive. The mathematics would suggest that based on the later enrage DPS checks, that no, not all unique combinations could clear on week one. The next question would be whether we (the community) think this was okay or not. This could be debated until the cows come home because its a matter of opinion. We all have a vested interest in our preferred jobs. Clearly, Zerathor is in support of BLM's present position and I don't blame him. BLM is the best it has ever been and I'm not talking about just DPS. The job just feels better all around. Anybody who prefers to play that job wants to protect it. My current preference is RDM and I'd like to see it gain some minor DPS buffs. I would like its rDPS to be less than 10% but greater than 7% percent disparity from the present BLM. Presently, across all of Eden savage and all percentiles there is approximately 13-15% difference in rDPS between a BLM and RDM. I just want it closed a little bit so I don't feel the temptation to jump jobs to BLM, a job I like but don't prefer, so that I'm not holding my team back. I personally, don't want to see any of the high performing jobs, BLM included, nerfed or changed. People are happy with them and there's no reason to take that from them. The question is, will they (the top three) still be happy if the disparity is lessened a bit for the presently under performing jobs (in my opinion)?