Can any team comp clear?

[Wayfinder3]

The primary difference is, my math is rooted in logic, and actual known values. Yours is... entirely speculation on what you want to believe as long as it will support your argument. If I'm wrong, show me where you get these exact values.

And again, we've already seen what happens when utility jobs provide more than a pure damage job, for a very... very... long time. Pure dps jobs become irrelevant. Utility jobs should get more use out of buffing a high personal damage job, not 4 utility jobs jerking eachother off. We don't need another stormblood, we don't need another last half of heavensward. Let the game progress. Sorry if that means you wont be a required job in every composition anymore, but that's how it should be.

Just saying, Alphascape logs for speed killing are immortalized on FFlogs and clearly show a meta where a Pure Dps(BLM) and a Utility Dps(SMN) existed in equal measure and both are all over the Top 10 of those fights. in fact, even SAM was meta for at least 1 fight which at the very least is more than thats ever been said about the job lately. The point still stands though, your idea that if Utility dps are good, Pure dps will fall isn't true and, there is in fact a balance that can be established.
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings/25

[Zerathor]

Just saying, Alphascape logs for speed killing are immortalized on FFlogs and clearly show a meta where a Pure Dps(BLM) and a Utility Dps(SMN) existed in equal measure are both are all over the Top 10 of those fights. in fact, even SAM was meta for at least 1 fight which at the very least is more than thats ever been said about the job lately. The point still stands though, your idea that if Utility dps are good, PUre dps will fall isn't true and there is infact a balance that can be established.
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/rankings/25

And just saying, one of those jobs was desired for progging it, but still got to be high on damage for some reason despite the other one not being desired. All you show is that after a fight is done and everyone has cleared it, some jobs can do better. But for some reason, the jobs that made it easier to clear should also be in the speedrun meta.

[Wayfinder3]

And just saying, one of those jobs was desired for progging it, but still got to be high on damage for some reason despite the other one not being desired.

Do you think it's fair that BLM has 41% of Titan Savage kills compared to RDMs 20%? BLM SHOULD be an outcast for progression because by your logic, it's damage is all it has and damage shouldn't be the only factor that matters in progression. too bad rdm and smn dps is so comparatively lower that BLM has twice as many savage clears as the prog caster which is completely unfair. You don't want balance, you want to get even for the BLM problems of yesterday, now that you're on top. You're spreading fear at any chance of RDM and SMN getting their fair share while being willfully ignorant to the fact that RDM never even had a turn to be the "best one" and they've never asked for it.

[Zerathor]

Do you think it's fair that BLM has 41% of Titan Savage kills compared to RDMs 20%? BLM SHOULD be an outcast for progression because by your logic, it's damage is all it has and damage shouldn't be the only factor that matters in progression. too bad rdm and smn dps is so comparatively lower that BLM has twice as many savage clears as the prog caster which is completely unfair. You don't want balance, you want to get even for the BLM problems of yesterday, now that you're on top. You're spreading fear at any chance of RDM and SMN getting their fair share while being willfully ignorant to the fact that RDM never even had a turn to be the "best one" and they've never asked for it.

You're a fool if you think those blm's weren't on rdm/smn up until the group learned the enrage.

I'll put this in simple terms so that you might get it through your skull. You have 2 jobs to pick. Both will provide the same raid dps after all buffs are accounted for. Do you want the one that has a raise, or the one that does not have a raise? Do you want the one that makes your numbers look pretty, or the one that does not? Stop and think about it for more than 2 seconds, it might just come to you, i believe in you champ.

[Wayfinder3]

You're a fool if you think those blm's weren't on rdm/smn up until the group learned the enrage.

I'll put this in simple terms so that you might get it through your skull. You have 2 jobs to pick. Both will provide the same raid dps after all buffs are accounted for. Do you want the one that has a raise, or the one that does not have a raise? Do you want the one that makes your numbers look pretty, or the one that does not? Stop and think about it for more than 2 seconds, it might just come to you, i believe in you champ.

I'm not a fool, unlike you. I deal in facts and whats recorded. If you think RDM is fine being used a condom before being torn off so that BLM can steal the glory of a kill for the 1 niche RDM has in this game. then you're a BLM main thats insane and unwilling to distribute fairly. RDM should have the most clears of fights because it should be the most accessible caster at killing encounters while not being as efficient as BLM. If we look at Eden gate Savage, RDM has the least amount of representation in ALL of the fights and that representation naturally gets lower to a point where double the amount of BLM are killing content then the JOB DESIGNED to clear it.

[Zerathor]

I'm not a fool, unlike you. I deal in facts and whats recorded. If you think RDM is fine being used a condom before being torn off so that BLM can steal the glory of a kill for the 1 niche RDM has in this game. then you're a BLM main insane and unwilling to distribute fairly. RDM should have the most clears of fights because it should be the most accessible caster at killing encounters while not being as efficient as BLM. If we look at Eden gate Savage, RDM has the least amount of representation in ALL of the fights and that representation naturally gets lower to a point where double the amount of BLM are killing content then the JOB DESIGNED to clear it.

alright bud, you want to cherry pick? lets cherry pick.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/23

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/19

Keep pretending it wasn't because raise.

50 bucks says you considered this fair, lmao

[SaberMaxwell]

alright bud, you want to cherry pick? lets cherry pick.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/23

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/19

Keep pretending it wasn't because raise.

50 bucks says you considered this fair, lmao

You don't think mobility couldn't have had some reason as well? Summoners back when that was relevant could do bait-type mechanics as well as a ranged DPS could, which itself was invaluable for keeping healers rooted and, well, healing. This was an advantage that Black Mage and Red Mage lacked. Liquid Hell bait DPS needs a backup? SMN to the rescue, able to Ruin 2 and run. Eruption baiting? Summoner loses basically nothing doing this, so the healers lose nothing in needing to do it for the caster.

Raise is a factor, yes, but if BLM had raise in that fight and maintained its immense disadvantage in mobility, it wouldn't have done much better. While Red Mage, who has verraise, did better than Black Mage, it has barely over half the clear rate as Summoners despite how much better it is at raising quickly. Summoners are so vastly overrepresented in both Ultimates because it lacked any of the weaknesses of its peers and had the strengths of both of them.

You know who else got to be top dog DPS for an expansion and hated by its peers because it demanded that place for "reparations" from past expansion's tough points? Summoner. Just a thought.

[Kabooa]

BLM SHOULD be an outcast for progression because by your logic, it's damage is all it has and damage shouldn't be the only factor that matters in progression.

Glad we're all not showing any of that bias. Only us evil Black mages, not wanting to be ostracized for progression.

EDIT: Whelp. I hit my post limit.

Really thought I had one more.

@Kejara. Rank by progress, look at 273. Week 1 clear was possible, they did it, and if you look through the data enough, you can see other groups with bottom 3 and 1 big3 where the big3 can be replaced by a Samurai or a tippity toppity lower 6 and clear.

@Wayfinder

Alright, I kind of get your position, but I have a question for you.

What about those of us -not- in the speedkilling community? I've joined one group for it back in Alte Roite, and while it was fun, it wasn't my thing. I primarily join party finder to A) Progress outside my static and B) help other people get their clears.

Why should my job inherently be weaker for what I want to do, especially when some of those people -really need- that advantage Black Mage can bring? If everyone gets bumped up in DPS, -then the DPS check is higher- in the next tier. You don't honestly think they'd keep it relatively the same despite giving 60% of the dps jobs an increase, do you?

[Wayfinder3]

Glad we're all not showing any of that bias. Only us evil Black mages, not wanting to be ostracized for progression.

it's easy to cherry pick quotes without context, if you read his comment prior, you can see that he feels it's justified for BLM to do the most damage as it has the least amount of utility to contribute to a raid in progression. RDM on the other hand was designed to contribute to a raid's progression. So it's only FAIR that RDM should see more representation in progresion because THATS THE POINT OF IT. in alphascape, this was true and RDM had more clears than both SMN and BLM but both of them filled a strong healthy coexistence in speed kills and optimized play where rdm had no place. This isn't Bias, this is fair distribution of value in a role.