Perma shelved my DRK: No role, no idenity, no lore, no worthwhile skills, no fun

[shao32]

like, I get that. But i know i've said it before and as have others, the playerbase by large was just not touching DRK as much as they were WAR/PLD in 4.x. SE saw that and said "we have to do something!" What they came up with is what we have now. There's plenty more of what could have been done but remember that most of the complaints were "we press DA too much," so SE could either, while all the team is working on making sure GNB is functional and balanced, and introducing DNC, and overhauling how tanks in general function, pour time into making DA work, or just remove it.

Expediency led to them removing dark arts and SE backed themselves into a corner with DRK's design.

but at the same time we have to keep something important in mind, why ppl din't play SB DRK? for gameplay or was bcs was heavely underpowered compared to his counterparts (but viable to clear anything) until pretty late in the expansion?, i recognice DRK have certain mechanics like DA spam that make some ppl move to another job but if the problem was primary the spam and the lack of other MP expenders removing it complety is not the solution, DRK SB low pick rate was mostly bcs balance problems rather that gameplay isues that could be adressed this expansion by tunning down certain stuff instead of making the job a WAR clone, and even after the buffs in 4.3 literally 2 raid tiers later the job was slightly behind and lacks any raid mitigation.

the current drama and backstab from old DRK mains is a well deserved situation that SE made for homogenize tank gameplays, point to not the same to homogenize tank capabilitys, i mean to be clear why i quote you is the excuse of "is function" it's doesn't work for me at least bcs you can make anything fuction actually to 1 buttom job to a 50 buttom job with any mechanic you can imagine simple or complex, old DRK versions perfectly works, and both of them where fun and balanced more or less bcs is a question of numbers and rates rather that mechanics so repurpose all the job without have the decency to keep it unique was the biggest insult SE give me.

[WhyAmIHere]

Look, I agree. But, I also tend to consider just what the devs had on their plates when coming up with 5.0 DRK.

People liked and played 4.2+ WAR because it had utility in SiO, was a high damaging tank, and holmgang wad ridiculous. DRK was bottom on the DPS list and lacked in real raid utility, and Living Dead is actual stupidity in design.

What I imagine SE had on their list to do for 5.0 was this:
1) Add raid utility on DRK
2) address DA spam
3) address its lack of damage
4) make it accessible as it's the posterboy for the expac

We can debate on point 3, seeing as how GNB/PLD are top of the tank DPS charts at present, but they did address points 1 and 2 in 5.0. Way I see it though, right now WAR and other classes need more work and attention to them than DRK does, so it's unlikely we'll see naught more than I hope something for LD adjustments in 5.1. Them turning it into the current shadow of a WAR is where a large issue of strife comes from with point 4, and I'm on board with those complaints. But there's nothing anyone can really do except just not play it til SE realizes "oh. lots of folks aren't playing DRK anymore. hmmm."

Complaints are valid against 5.0 DRK, but other stuff's taking priority right now in SE's eyes.

[shao32]

i don't deny those points mostly get adressed on my opinion with the worst and most lazy choise posible but still i don't see why i should remain quiet bcs it's works, something i don't doubt about it, i mean DRK is argueable the only job who his gameplay has been downgrade with each expansion despite most feedback wanting HW gameplay aproach, i wait to much thinking next expansion will be better. i personally tired of wait for SE doing something properly with DRK, the lack of response and action on SB and now this mess for 2 years more until next expansion and pray for them to do something right for once? nope.



in this case for DRK solution to his problems patched in a future expansion, i love DRK and indeed other jobs need help and ajustments but thats no reason to keep this version 2 years around bcs they lack the vision and the effort to do what they should and develop the job properly with HW version as a base to improve not to remove.

[DemonicNeko]

i mean you have to consider, they were redesigning DRK, while designing GNB, while restructuring all the tanks. that's a lot to balance on top of, ya know, literally every other change they were doing. Sure it's no excuse for laziness from the devs, and yes the 5.0 iteration of DRK is an uninspired mess of a WAR clone. But, it functions.

I have to disagree with you on that. Look at MCH and DNC. They some how did not make MCH a bard clone or half assed it redesign because they where working on DNC. Why did DRK get the short end of the stick on a expansion they where the poster child for. While MCH who was not promised a rework. Some how got a massive super rework that is not only functions but fun to play.

[DemonicNeko]

in this case for DRK solution to his problems patched in a future expansion, i love DRK and indeed other jobs need help and ajustments but thats no reason to keep this version 2 years around bcs they lack the vision and the effort to do what they should and develop the job properly with HW version as a base to improve not to remove.

Big oof there. Now I wil not lie. I hope in the future Dark Knight might take more steps to becoming more like Cecil Harvey version of dark knight. Yes they can make the hp drain ability work for a tank. They just need to be creative with it. As well as loosing tank busters and instant kill mechanics that you need invulnerability abilities to stay alive. That is terrible boss design right here. There better ways to add challenge to a fight.

[WhyAmIHere]

I have to disagree with you on that. Look at MCH and DNC. They some how did not make MCH a bard clone or half assed it redesign because they where working on DNC. Why did DRK get the short end of the stick on a expansion they where the poster child for. While MCH who was not promised a rework. Some how got a massive super rework that is not only functions but fun to play.

a few reasons.
1) MCH had an identity. It was supposed to be the "finely tuned engine, high DPS of it's bracket" for lack of a better term. in terms of the sliding scale of utility<->damage, BRD was utility and MCH damage in concept. In execution however, MCH was too demanding on ping. SE had an easier time with MCH's redesign... which from what I've heard they've done the opposite and somehow made it more ping dependent for top damage. They had, as with DRK, received PLENTY of feedback on what MCH was missing and what felt bad about it, and they fixed those things. All I hear from people that I know who have any skill with it is "new MCH is so much fun."
DRK's identity was always in this weird state of limbo. Not as much damage as WAR, nor as muh utility as PLD, so... middle child syndrome? What's DRK offer that makes it stand out? (Aesthetics are not a factor for me here as that's subjective and not evidential.)
MCH did have an identity in it's drones and wildfire. Things that were either removed or severely adjusted based on player feedback. DRK's only similarity is the removal of Dark Arts spam, the one common thread of complaint against DRK. The rest of it's kit being pruned is a result of this one decision, and an evaluation within SE (entirely in my opinion that I've said time and again) that people, post 4.2, were jumping off of DRK and most tank comps played were PLD/WAR, and SE in it's logic sought to make DRK more akin to WAR to make the former DRK players who dropped it for WAR to try and go back to it. "Well, players seem to like WAR now, and not DRK anymore... what if we made DRK more like what they enjoy in WAR? But we can't make it a direct clone soooooo... DelIRium! Blood Weapon is a 10s duration of infuriate! Damage buff upkeep! But we can't make any changes to Living Dead because [i]Hallowed Ground is too powerful so we based the other invulns off of that, and oh yeah ClAsS fAnTaSy!!"
(Parry/Accuracy were removed because they were hindrances to gameplay. Elemental resistances were taken away because they were outmoded and irrelevant. Yet Living Dead still exists as it does. Amazing.)

2) On a numerical level you're also forgetting that, MCH only had to compete with BRD, and it was easy for SE to slot DNC into the phys.ranged role, as they just made it the utility end of the role, and now BRD players are the middle child of their role. How many BRD complaints have their been about how now BRD doesn't feel as supportive as it used to be? BRD players are seeing what DRK has had to deal with for all of 4.0: being in the middle of their role, good enough at what they do, but what do you offer that your peers do not? Want damage? BRD can pack a punch sure (as could DRK), but MCH can pack an even higher punch. Want to bring some raid utility? BRD can do that (as could DRK), but not as good as DNC (Battle Voice -v- Technical/Standard steps and Devilment versus DRK -v- PLD on utility arguments). Does BRD function as a job and can be played in any content? Yes, just like every other class. Just like DRK could.

3) Purely my opinion. SE doesn't know what to do with DRK. "Hey, you loved HW DRK? Here's GNB! Our next attempt at making a more balanced version of that! Oh, you liked 4.0 DRK? Well... tough luck! Here's GNB! Look, continuation is just a better realized attempt at what 4.0 Dark Arts could have been!"

[RitzNBitz]

snip

No job in this game is big brain, everything is fairly simple with a bit of practice. Not gonna feel bad about preferring SB DRK though to SHB DRK, that's the beauty of games. It felt a lot better and hectic (even if it was artificial). Its not a understatement to say current DRK feels a lot like warrior did in SB, and those that love the shit out of it now would of probably loved the shit out of warrior from a gameplay perspective.

Thats not to say its wrong to like SHB DRK, but SB/HW DRK had a unique feel to them that doesn't exist really anymore. GNB might come close, but its just not the same. It is also not wrong to like DA Spam.

Delirium in SB was not exactly the most interesting skill, but its augment on blood weapon felt much nicer then what we have now.

[Lyth]

In Stormblood, DRK was the least popular tank in raid content. This could be because of lower dps, a relative lack of utility, or because of gameplay issues.

In Shadowbringers, DRK is about tied with GNB for being the second most popular tank in raid content. This is despite consistently having the lowest dps out of the four. It's not like we've got any real advantages in the utility department, either.

So even if it doesn't match up with your personal definition of fun, the new DRK seems to be better received than the old one, despite not really offering the player any big gameplay advantages for choosing it. And quite frankly, it's the only tank job which involves any sort of resource management, which in itself differentiates DRK's gameplay style from the rest.

You don't have to like it personally. It shouldn't play like GNB or PLD. There's something for everyone here.

[Nedkel]

i don't deny those points mostly get adressed on my opinion with the worst and most lazy choise posible but still i don't see why i should remain quiet bcs it's works, something i don't doubt about it, i mean DRK is argueable the only job who his gameplay has been downgrade with each expansion despite most feedback wanting HW gameplay aproach, i wait to much thinking next expansion will be better. i personally tired of wait for SE doing something properly with DRK, the lack of response and action on SB and now this mess for 2 years more until next expansion and pray for them to do something right for once? nope.



in this case for DRK solution to his problems patched in a future expansion, i love DRK and indeed other jobs need help and ajustments but thats no reason to keep this version 2 years around bcs they lack the vision and the effort to do what they should and develop the job properly with HW version as a base to improve not to remove.

Where is this image coming from? Is it strict from FFXIV devs? xD
It looks like one, that would be quite ironic

[Aluja89]

Where is this image coming from? Is it strict from FFXIV devs? xD
It looks like one, that would be quite ironic

It really is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRZ_4H0OK60