Is it me or has the community gotten worse...

[JohnSpawnVFX]

Being a Good/Bad player isn't binary.

People improve over time through practice, or they may be having a bad day, or they were momentarily distracted, etc.

I see this a lot, people who claim to espouse 'teamwork' seem to expect top performance from everyone, instantly.
Their idea of 'teamwork' is "enable me to complete the content as quick as possible". That's not teamwork.
People may still be learning the content, teamwork is having the patience to help your teammates through the content, not using them for a quick clear.

People keep shunning the tools that allow them to improve. ACT? No, that's against the rules (even though World first runners clearly show overlays on stream and are fine). Balance Discord? No, it's full of toxic elitist raiders. Suggestions? No, you don't pay my sub.

People have no interest in improvement, just their feelings and keeping doing what they do without anyone telling them they're not helping the group.

And again, if everyone had passable performance, we wouldn't be having this topic in the first place. We wouldn't be having trap parties for EX. We wouldn't be having Savage PUG parties with one or two people wiping the rest of the group consistently. We wouldn't be having wipes on Titania Normal of all things. We wouldn't have people asking for Shinryu to be nerfed. We wouldn't have people saying playing as Y'shtola with only 4 buttons is too hard.
You seem to forget that, if I complete the content quickly, so does everyone else. It's a win win for everyone. But feefees and virtue signaling culture is what matters nowadays. We got to the point where SE needs to do the handholding themselves, because people aren't capable of doing anything independently.

[Seraphor]

People keep shunning the tools that allow them to improve. ACT? No, that's against the rules (even though World first runners clearly show overlays on stream and are fine). Balance Discord? No, it's full of toxic elitist raiders. Suggestions? No, you don't pay my sub.

People have no interest in improvement, just their feelings and keeping doing what they do without anyone telling them they're not helping the group.

And again, if everyone had passable performance, we wouldn't be having this topic in the first place. We wouldn't be having trap parties for EX. We wouldn't be having Savage PUG parties with one or two people wiping the rest of the group consistently. We wouldn't be having wipes on Titania Normal of all things. We wouldn't have people asking for Shinryu to be nerfed. We wouldn't have people saying playing as Y'shtola with only 4 buttons is too hard.
You seem to forget that, if I complete the content quickly, so does everyone else. It's a win win for everyone. But feefees and virtue signaling culture is what matters nowadays. We got to the point where SE needs to do the handholding themselves, because people aren't capable of doing anything independently.

You didn’t read what I said did you?

I said IF they don’t improve, IF they don’t accept help, IF they refuse to learn.

You can’t know these things unless you give them a chance first.
One wipe = kick, is not giving them a chance.

If you don’t have the patience to give people a chance, just admit it, instead of pretending you’re some paragon of teamwork.

To instead come from a default position of “nobody ever wants to learn or improve, and I won’t give anyone a chance to do so anyway” is the peak of cynicism and "everyone must meet my standards before they encounter me" is elitism.

People learn in different ways, ACT isn't available to everyone, and you can look up and learn good rotations without needing to set foot in the Balance Discord.

[Gwenorai]

You didn’t read what I said didyou?

I said IF they don’t improve, IF they don’t accept help, IF they refuse to learn.

You can’t know these things unless you give them a chance first.
One wipe = kick, is not giving them a chance.

If you don’t have the patience to give people a chance, just admit it, instead of pretending you’re some paragon of teamwork.

To instead come from a default position of “nobody ever wants to learn or improve, and I won’t give anyone a chance to do so anyway” is the peak of cynicism and elitism.

I don't understand why you would go into such a party - join a training party or a party that is more chill. There's no point for you to join a 'One wipe = kick' party if you're not confident enough to be able to pull that off. Most folks are very clear in the party finder about this. It actually makes me really mad when we warn folks that we actually want to farm and thus don't wish wipes, but there's one player who's consistently wiping the party - the admirable thing for them to do is to step up and go 'I'm sorry, I can't do this right now - my mind is elsewhere, I'll leave.' Not continue to stay in the party, that was specifically stated to be a farm or had those strict 'one wipe = kick' clauses on join up.

That doesn't make the person who's kicking you an ahole, they're an ahole if they chew you out though and publically slam your dps. Folks can be tactful about it.

[Seraphor]

I don't understand why you would go into such a party - join a training party or a party that is more chill. There's no point for you to join a 'One wipe = kick' party if you're not confident enough to be able to pull that off. Most folks are very clear in the party finder about this. It actually makes me really mad when we warn folks that we actually want to farm and thus don't wish wipes, but there's one player who's consistently wiping the party - the admirable thing for them to do is to step up and go 'I'm sorry, I can't do this right now - my mind is elsewhere, I'll leave.' Not continue to stay in the party, that was specifically stated to be a farm or had those strict 'one wipe = kick' clauses on join up.

That doesn't make the person who's kicking you an ahole, they're an ahole if they chew you out though and publically slam your dps. Folks can be tactful about it.

That’s fair enough, IF you have a PF that explicitly lays out those rules, but that’s not what JohnSpawn was talking about. He means in general, in all content. People don't go into a Savage clear party and say things like "you don't pay my sub."

If the PF listing you mention, you’re not pretending that your hard stance is about “teamwork”, you’re admitting that you don’t have the patience to help people learn, that’s why you’re specifying it.

[Driavna]

That’s fair enough, IF you have a PF that explicitly lays out those rules, but that’s not what JohnSpawn was talking about. He means in general, in all content. People don't go into a Savage clear party and say things like "you don't pay my sub."

If the PF listing you mention, you’re not pretending that your hard stance is about “teamwork”, you’re admitting that you don’t have the patience to help people learn, that’s why you’re specifying it.

You will be surprised by the number of players refusing to do X or Y mechanics in extreme or savage content using excuses that are variations of "you don't pay my sub". Sure, is not that super common but still happens.

[Driavna]

You didn’t read what I said didyou?

I said IF they don’t improve, IF they don’t accept help, IF they refuse to learn.

You can’t know these things unless you give them a chance first.
One wipe = kick, is not giving them a chance.

If you don’t have the patience to give people a chance, just admit it, instead of pretending you’re some paragon of teamwork.

To instead come from a default position of “nobody ever wants to learn or improve, and I won’t give anyone a chance to do so anyway” is the peak of cynicism and elitism.

DPS classes refusing to use their AoE skills because "reasons" it's not that uncommon. IMO, after all the changes, there is no longer a reason to not use that combo when appropriate. To me, is an extremely disrespectful behaviour against the rest of the party.

A farming/clear party is not a practice party. I personally always join practice parties when I'm learning new roles and I also avoid joining a farming party right away after my first clear, and sure, mistakes happens and it should not be a big deal, but once again, totally clueless players that should not be at a farming party are a reality.

[Oldschoolegamer38]

People have no interest in improvement, just their feelings and keeping doing what they do without anyone telling them they're not helping the group.

This is a blanket statement. this is not about feelings It about being a helpful,positive player in the community, and yes I do want to improve and be better but at the same time I do not need the BS, Feelings can get in the ways at times, but we are human and not robots so you need to take that into consideration as well.