Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

[Lauront]

Ok good, Im not crazy and reading between the lines.
That being said, if Yoshi already said "Its not an issue that can be solved with more people or money" I don't think Sales of ShB will exactly solve it or get the Genders quicker.

Ah, but he did say it was a resource issue because they would struggle to maintain their current patch cycle given existing resource availability. All he said is that it could not be simply solved by throwing more money or manpower at it. Not that those aren't factors, especially when he went on to name debugging and QA as the specific areas that were posing a problem. However one slices it up, it does in fact resolve back to those issues, just not in a straightforward manner (i.e. SE is unwilling to go out and hire a team of contingent QAs for a short period of time, or to contract the work out, etc.)

However, it doesn't matter what the root of the problem is - if there's no money involved in solving it, SE is less likely to even bother. Whereas if there is profit to be made, there is a greater incentive to find a way to resolve these issues. Thus the question is articulated in that way. If SE saw that ShB failed to generate much interest and too few people cared about the new races to make them financially viable, they could draw the inference that the money is best utilised elsewhere.

[official_coconut]

Shadowbringers seems to have outdone the other mmorpgs out right now, though as for how much money the new races made that is probably data only available to SE. Not everyone may have paid for a fantasia and some could be using the one obtained through the MSQ. They had to have made some money from the new races from the people that fantasiaed back from them as well, especially due to the hair limitations.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Ah, but he did say it was a resource issue because they would struggle to maintain their current patch cycle given existing resource availability. All he said is that it could not be simply solved by throwing more money or manpower at it. Not that those aren't factors, especially when he went on to name debugging and QA as the specific areas that were posing a problem. However one slices it up, it does in fact resolve back to those issues, just not in a straightforward manner (i.e. SE is unwilling to go out and hire a team of contingent QAs for a short period of time, or to contract the work out, etc.)

However, it doesn't matter what the root of the problem is - if there's no money involved in solving it, SE is less likely to even bother. Whereas if there is profit to be made, there is a greater incentive to find a way to resolve these issues. Thus the question is articulated in that way. If SE saw that ShB failed to generate much interest and too few people cared about the new races to make them financially viable, they could draw the inference that the money is best utilised elsewhere.

The root of the Problem is the biggest point..... Otherwise, we'd just have both Genders and Yoshi could outright tell us they are coming & they just aren't done yet. Money wouldn't be the Obstacle, nor would it be the solution, or the Motivation. They could just do it if there isn't a root problem as explained.
There would literally be no point or benefit to telling us there are hurdles that are preventing this from happening, and then saying "They can't make Promises, or they can't outright say No" They would have already had an answer....like how they were able to tell us that The Hrothgar are built differently from the other races, therefor they would get Unique Hairstyles exclusive to them. Outright telling us that any hairstyles we have collected will not be useable for the race, because of how the heads were made.

[Gwenorai]

The root of the Problem is the biggest point..... Otherwise, we'd just have both Genders and Yoshi could outright tell us they are coming & they just aren't done yet. Money wouldn't be the Obstacle, nor would it be the solution, or the Motivation. They could just do it if there isn't a root problem as explained.
There would literally be no point or benefit to telling us there are hurdles that are preventing this from happening, and then saying "They can't make Promises, or they can't outright say No" They would have already had an answer....like how they were able to tell us that The Hrothgar are built differently from the other races, therefor they would get Unique Hairstyles exclusive to them. Outright telling us that any hairstyles we have collected will not be useable for the race, because of how the heads were made.

This is what makes me scream though, I want to know the issue that's stopping it. I remember specifically he said there were certain obstacles that were holding them back and if his team can get around said reasons then they would be implemented. The only issues I see is literally the lore they've written and possible story they have planned. Do they have plans where the male Viera and female Ronso will be playing a big role in the future? And thus, sadly being a selling point? This is what bothers me. Because I can certainly imagine that on the source that a male Viera would be revealed by being a captain of the resistance group of Viera and the people of Ivalice. While the Queen of the Ronso, will also be part of a future quest where we will need to save her for which we start a political alliance with her homeland and Eorzea.

That's what my mind is going - I think they've written themselves into a hole, that they can't get out of at this current time.

In regards to the male Viera I think this is likely because the Ra'tika wood seems to be a mirror of Viera's wood in the source. The information of Zodiark could also be here in the woodland. Hades looked like Zodiark form in FF12. And of course, that Zodiark was hidden in Ivalice. I can certainly imagine Zenos making his way there in order to acquire what he's looking for. As for the Ronso queen, we know she has been taken by the empire and possibly killed - this leads to a story where we will more than likely have to either find her, or protect her successor.

[SturmChurro]

This is what makes me scream though, I want to know the issue that's stopping it. I remember specifically he said there were certain obstacles that were holding them back and if his team can get around said reasons then they would be implemented. The only issues I see is literally the lore they've written and possible story they have planned. Do they have plans where the male Viera and female Ronso will be playing a big role in the future? And thus, sadly being a selling point? This is what bothers me. Because I can certainly imagine that on the source that a male Viera would be revealed by being a captain of the resistance group of Viera and the people of Ivalice. While the Queen of the Ronso, will also be part of a future quest where we will need to save her for which we start a political alliance with her homeland and Eorzea.

That's what my mind is going - I think they've written themselves into a hole, that they can't get out of at this current time.

In regards to the male Viera I think this is likely because the Ra'tika wood seems to be a mirror of Viera's wood in the source. The information of Zodiark could also be here in the woodland. Hades looked like Zodiark form in FF12. And of course, that Zodiark was hidden in Ivalice. I can certainly imagine Zenos making his way there in order to acquire what he's looking for. As for the Ronso queen, we know she has been taken by the empire and possibly killed - this leads to a story where we will more than likely have to either find her, or protect her successor.

I don't think they wrote themselves in a corner. They wrote it in a way that if they were never to come out, everything is all good, and if they were to be implemented they could just write it to work later. The Empire is on the decline anyway.

Emet-Selch is dead, the emperor is dead, and Zenos doesn't care about it past what he can make use of for his hunt. If anything I see the empire breaking up, or reforming later. We will need a new big bad though.

[Gwenorai]

I don't think they wrote themselves in a corner. They wrote it in a way that if they were never to come out, everything is all good, and if they were to be implemented they could just write it to work later. The Empire is on the decline anyway.

Emet-Selch is dead, the emperor is dead, and Zenos doesn't care about it past what he can make use of for his hunt. If anything I see the empire breaking up, or reforming later. We will need a new big bad though.

Sobs, let me dream Churro, let me dream.

[Lauront]

The root of the Problem is the biggest point..... Otherwise, we'd just have both Genders and Yoshi could outright tell us they are coming & they just aren't done yet. Money wouldn't be the Obstacle, nor would it be the solution, or the Motivation. They could just do it if there isn't a root problem as explained.
There would literally be no point or benefit to telling us there are hurdles that are preventing this from happening, and then saying "They can't make Promises, or they can't outright say No" They would have already had an answer....like how they were able to tell us that The Hrothgar are built differently from the other races, therefor they would get Unique Hairstyles exclusive to them. Outright telling us that any hairstyles we have collected will not be useable for the race, because of how the heads were made.

Sorry but I don't think you're grasping what I am saying. They are a profit-seeking enterprise. Not a charity. You are solely focusing on one single issue to the detriment of everything else. Money IS an obstacle if the feature's addition would cost them on net, which it could if demand doesn't cover the costs of any possible solution that they devise. I am not disputing that there is a "root problem" (which as I said, amounts to the costs; he is just saying they cannot be reduced in a straightforward manner, not that they're not the issue); what I am disputing is that they will consider adding them if the feature is detrimental to their revenues.

I am thus satisfied with how I phrased the question.

This is what makes me scream though, I want to know the issue that's stopping it. I remember specifically he said there were certain obstacles that were holding them back and if his team can get around said reasons then they would be implemented. The only issues I see is literally the lore they've written and possible story they have planned. Do they have plans where the male Viera and female Ronso will be playing a big role in the future? And thus, sadly being a selling point? This is what bothers me. Because I can certainly imagine that on the source that a male Viera would be revealed by being a captain of the resistance group of Viera and the people of Ivalice. While the Queen of the Ronso, will also be part of a future quest where we will need to save her for which we start a political alliance with her homeland and Eorzea.

That's what my mind is going - I think they've written themselves into a hole, that they can't get out of at this current time.

In regards to the male Viera I think this is likely because the Ra'tika wood seems to be a mirror of Viera's wood in the source. The information of Zodiark could also be here in the woodland. Hades looked like Zodiark form in FF12. And of course, that Zodiark was hidden in Ivalice. I can certainly imagine Zenos making his way there in order to acquire what he's looking for. As for the Ronso queen, we know she has been taken by the empire and possibly killed - this leads to a story where we will more than likely have to either find her, or protect her successor.

I think the problem is that they cannot expand their team in a straightforward manner. There are solutions to the problems he posed but they may come with downsides SE is not comfortable with assuming. As to the plot point...

...they don't need an excuse to add them. They just added Au Ra by fiat, even though their lore connections to any existing material at the time were tangential, at best. Bear in mind Gabranth acquired Construct 7, with its considerable teleportation powers, should they wish to put that to use, and now Zenos will begin his "hunt" for finding a way to merge with a deity, who will in all likelihood put an end to his hubris and end up dominating him instead. Hydaelyn, being ensconced in the Aetherial Sea, is definitely easier to track down than Zodiark, who he's probably aiming for and who was expelled from the planet and is referred to dwelling in the "Abyss" by Hydaelyn which is probably some location connected to the moon in some fashion, much like the Aetherial Sea is at the centre of the star. What may indeed lurk beneath Ivalice is further knowledge about the two gods. The High Seraph was a rather odd entity, about which we know little, so I'm not ruling out the presence of more knowledge residing there one bit. Just bear in mind Rak'Tika is Gridania's equivalent and not Golmore's. Of course the Source has endured multiple Calamities, which have probably altered its geography in some ways, but the regions' maps are still similar; population dispersion just appears to be different. Nonetheless, there is enough in the lore to allow for a Zenos visit to the territory, and the Source's version of Dalmasca and its surrounding territories may house ancient knowledge that has survived the Calamities.

I am a bit concerned that we will entirely sidetrack Ilsabard and many other unknown zones on the Source, especially if this world-hopping thing proves to be a trend, but I'm confident they will want to disperse those clouds on the map in due course, so we may see an Ilsabard/Sharlayan expansion before resuming our otherworldly travels. However, I think it's all tangential to mViera/fHrothgar as it's not a necessity for their addition - it'd just be a nice way to do it.

I don't think they wrote themselves in a corner. They wrote it in a way that if they were never to come out, everything is all good, and if they were to be implemented they could just write it to work later. The Empire is on the decline anyway.

Emet-Selch is dead, the emperor is dead, and Zenos doesn't care about it past what he can make use of for his hunt. If anything I see the empire breaking up, or reforming later. We will need a new big bad though.

On that...

I'd say reformation but on a friendlier basis is the likelihood, if they avoid the unfortunate outcome of off-screen destruction. Maybe with Gaius as the leader. They have plenty of room for antagonists, because the Hydaelyn/Zodiark plot arc will run into 6.0 and maybe 7.0, and we already know there are otherworldly civilisations and monstrosities outside the Source and its Reflections which pose a threat in their own right, whether that involves some Ascian "nudging" - or not - in addition to any lingering native threats that reside on the Source. I don't think they need the Empire as a plot device for further exploration of the Viera and Hrothgar's homelands, in any case. It could be a fruitful conduit for it, but hardly a necessary one.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Sorry but I don't think you're grasping what I am saying. They are a profit-seeking enterprise. Not a charity. You are solely focusing on one single issue to the detriment of everything else. Money IS an obstacle if the feature's addition would cost them on net, which it could if demand doesn't cover the costs of any possible solution that they devise. I am not disputing that there is a "root problem" (which as I said, amounts to the costs; he is just saying they cannot be reduced in a straightforward manner, not that they're not the issue); what I am disputing is that they will consider adding them if the feature is detrimental to their revenues.

I am thus satisfied with how I phrased the question.

I understand exactly what you're saying mate.
But Im starting to believe the root of THIS issue here, is you literally think it is a money issue. If you think they need a financial incentive to solve an issue, and that commercial success of the Expansion might lead to solving the issue, then that as a whole means $$$ = Problem solved.
And I feel the need to remind you that YoshiP himself has already said ""Its not an issue that can be solved by throwing money at it"" So reading your post, it sounds like your convinced its a money issue, Or that more money will solve the issue.

Feel free to correct me here. It could just be how your wording stuff, because how Im reading you, it all seems to come back to 'Money'
Which I feel might get your question overlooked, because thats already been addressed.

[SturmChurro]

I think it's more of an issue of time/resource allocation, and priority. Even if the new races make them money, they aren't as important as other aspects of the game to them, that much is obvious. Not to mention the high cost involved in making them come to fruition. The commercial success of the expansion, even with the wide marketing appeal of the new races, could just mean more investment in other areas of the game. New races are a gimmick in this case. If they truly think the new races are finished - and that is my thinking -male viera/female hrothgar aren't even on the radar. They are taking their time with literally just hair, you really think they would prioritize the genders? I think not.

If the missing genders ever get added it will be due to demand, and ease of implementation, other things are on their schedule.

I.e. they have already made their money off of viera and hrothgar, this prospect is done for them. The missing genders may be something to make more in the future, and claim "fan service", best not to give a straight "no" for now.

[Lauront]

I understand exactly what you're saying mate.
But Im starting to believe the root of THIS issue here, is you literally think it is a money issue. If you think they need a financial incentive to solve an issue, and that commercial success of the Expansion might lead to solving the issue, then that as a whole means $$$ = Problem solved.
And I feel the need to remind you that YoshiP himself has already said ""Its not an issue that can be solved by throwing money at it"" So reading your post, it sounds like your convinced its a money issue, Or that more money will solve the issue.

Feel free to correct me here. It could just be how your wording stuff, because how Im reading you, it all seems to come back to 'Money'
Which I feel might get your question overlooked, because thats already been addressed.

To be honest, you're really not getting it, mate - I am saying that the entire thing will be a non-starter if they don't see any profit out of it altogether. I am not saying it all resolves to a money issue but that the incentive to even find ways to resolve their problems is non-existent if the expected return of investment is nil or negative, or marginal.

You've repeated Yoshi's quote multiple times now and I have explained to you why you're just regurgitating it without understanding what he's getting at.

They've overlooked the question when asked in a multiplicity of ways, so if they do in this case I shan't be surprised. However, you're just limited to claiming it's not a money issue or a manpower issue, when he said...

The addition of new playable races will impact more than the development cost of the items added in 5.1 and subsequent updates. Not only will we be transitioning from twelve variations (six races, two genders each) to fourteen, but we will also need to commit more resources to the development of new emotes. While FFXIV will continue to strive to maintain a regular 3.5 month major update cycle, we must also ensure that sufficient time is secured for the meticulous development of new content—or else the quality will invariably drop. This is a complex problem that can’t be solved simply by throwing more money or people at it, as it impacts both debugging and QA.

These are ALL resource issues, manifesting in different ways. His point is that simply throwing more money or people at it will not in and of itself resolve it - NOT that it isn't a problem of that nature. Just that it is not an easily solvable one. A different thing entirely. Why, you might ask? Again, because, for example, it's not easy to add the necessary manpower in a way that the firm is happy to entertain.

And for the last time now - I am referring to a primary consideration the company is likely to make before even considering the matter further, i.e. is it a profitable feature to add to the game. Which isn't the same as reducing it to a problem of money and costs (although quite what else you wish to extrapolate from his quote is beyond me and is bordering on sheer mysticism and tea leaf reading at this point.) It's a question any sensible company asks when investing further resources into a project, i.e. what value does it add.

Anyhow, if you still don't get it, whatever.

I think it's more of an issue of time/resource allocation, and priority. Even if the new races make them money, they aren't as important as other aspects of the game to them, that much is obvious. Not to mention the high cost involved in making them come to fruition. The commercial success of the expansion, even with the wide marketing appeal of the new races, could just mean more investment in other areas of the game. New races are a gimmick in this case. If they truly think the new races are finished - and that is my thinking -male viera/female hrothgar aren't even on the radar. They are taking their time with literally just hair, you really think they would prioritize the genders? I think not.

If the missing genders ever get added it will be due to demand, and ease of implementation, other things are on their schedule.

I.e. they have already made their money off of viera and hrothgar, this prospect is done for them. The missing genders may be something to make more in the future, and claim "fan service", best not to give a straight "no" for now.

And if it is a loss-leader and has a negative return on investment to it, the chances of it plummet to zero. Granted that simply being in demand does not mean they will add it, but if demand is minimal, a costly form of fan service with a negative return to it is just unlikely to happen at all; whereas a profitable one is a "maybe".