Can we talk about how mnk, drg, and blm are blatantly overpowered right now?

[HyoMinPark]

Just remove all the utility from DPS.
Give those to healers, or create an new group of jobs called 'enchanters'

No thanks.

[Kejara]

Just wanted to post an interesting fact for those not in the know.

According to the relative damage calculators for the BLM and RDM:

A BLM in full BiS has an average theoretical DPS 16582 DPS.

A RDM in full BiS has an average theoretical DPS 13853 DPS.

A difference of ~2700 DPS. This gap is broken beyond belief. I don't see how anybody could disagree.

I'm not one to petition for nerfs. I think BLM is fine in its current iteration. It's the other DPS like RDM/SMN/NIN/DNC that need to be brought up.

With that kind of DPS in full BiS, ~20K parses from BLMs with full raid buffs aren't that far off.

[Vallhallix]

So basically you're suggesting all the DPS roles should be the same?? No thanks. My BLM has basically one thing going for it, and that's the amount of damage it can deal. Why should BLM deal the same amount of damage that other DPS roles deal who also have buffs, debuffs, heals, rez options, etc.?

This somewhat, if I wanted to be a BLM i'd play BLM, some people want them to take away the very reason a lot of people like the other casters and ranged classes. Diversity and utility, SMN and RDM have been viable before, and both of them had raises during that time. So it's no reason they cannot buff them slightly without removal of raise, especially if "raise is as irrelevant" as people make it out. BLM is high end DPS for endgame, but that still hasen't stopped me from seeing nothing but Red Mages in just about every duty, and that is largely because people enjoy the way it plays. They love being able to self save themselves with a dualcast cure, they love being able to save a party. Want to take away something really useless from SMN? leave raise, take useless Physick and remove Titan. The fact that people want raise removed before COMPLETELY useless and unused skills SMN has is ridiculous.

[Eliadil]

This somewhat, if I wanted to be a BLM i'd play BLM, some people want them to take away the very reason a lot of people like the other casters and ranged classes. Diversity and utility, SMN and RDM have been viable before, and both of them had raises during that time. So it's no reason they cannot buff them slightly without removal of raise, especially if "raise is as irrelevant" as people make it out. BLM is high end DPS for endgame, but that still hasen't stopped me from seeing nothing but Red Mages in just about every duty, and that is largely because people enjoy the way it plays. They love being able to self save themselves with a dualcast cure, they love being able to save a party. Want to take away something really useless from SMN? leave raise, take useless Physick and remove Titan. The fact that people want raise removed before COMPLETELY useless and unused skills SMN has is ridiculous.

I do agree with you on every point, and I find it pretty amusing that most jobs want to get rid of their most important utility "because it isn't usefull and damage is just better". Sounds an awfull lot like some peoples want to play Samurai or Black Mage but with a spear, daggers or a book...

[Kejara]

I do agree with you on every point, and I find it pretty amusing that most jobs want to get rid of their most important utility "because it isn't usefull and damage is just better". Sounds an awfull lot like some peoples want to play Samurai or Black Mage but with a spear, daggers or a book...

People want to be viable in end game content and not feel like they are holding their teams back. There is already discrimination going on in PF because numbers matter. Some people are willing to give up their utility to avoid this discrimination and up their contribution. It is NOT the fault of those who play the jobs with utility but rather the fault of the encounter design team. Lower DPS jobs have no place in DPS race encounters. Period. It's just mathematics. I play RDM and I don't give a crap about verraise. Some people may like it and that's fine. As far as I'm concerned it can fall into the abyss never to return and I wouldn't care. Vercure can join it. It's the rest of the RDMs kit that I enjoy. However, I cannot speak for everybody.

In current encounter design, there is NO place for support/hybrids. Healers are competing for DPS. Tanks are competing for DPS. DPS are competing for, you guessed it, DPS. SE has made the end game meta evolve into one giant DPS competition for ALL roles. FF logs furthers the cause. Either SE needs to address encounter design to include a proper role for supports/hybrids or start thinking of removing the notion entirely.

And in all honesty, it sounds more like you're trying to preserve your job's position at the upper end of the DPS hierarchy rather than address the fundamental flaw that exists for DPS jobs that appear in the much lower portion of the hierarchy.

[Vendalwind]

I do agree with you on every point, and I find it pretty amusing that most jobs want to get rid of their most important utility "because it isn't usefull and damage is just better". Sounds an awfull lot like some peoples want to play Samurai or Black Mage but with a spear, daggers or a book...

As a NIN main.
I love trick and dont want to see it go, HOWEVER, I would easily give it up to see my class balanced correctly, and capable of actual contribution.
The reason some say they want it gone generally seems to be because others frequently say "you have trick whats the problem?". And that mindset is thr problem now is ShB.

Without our enmity manipulation utility our only value is in dps, but we suck at that. Trick doesnt get even close to making uo for how bad out pdps, especially considering that the job is designed in such a way that a mistake can have ramifications that echo through and decrease the dps done for the rest of the fight.

Classes with only dmg utility need to be able to contribute more cumulative rdps than classes without any utility. But if they dont perferm well, or dont synergize with the team appropriatly then they should do less. Right now bringing a NIN, SMN, or RDM is a severe handicap compared to other role choices.

Ranged classes all need a slight buff imo, but they dont suffer quite as much because their role is more consolidated.

[Machi_Machiavelli]

The solution is easy. Make nin a blink tank, give rdm refresh and enfeelbe magic, give brd better songs. And add/bring back the support role. No need to worry about the support class dps if their buffs are doubling everyone else's dps or severely handicapping the boss with debuffs.

[Kejara]

The solution is easy. Make nin a blink tank, give rdm refresh and enfeelbe magic, give brd better songs. And add/bring back the support role. No need to worry about the support class dps if their buffs are doubling everyone else's dps or severely handicapping the boss with debuffs.

Sounds amazing but the solution is not so easy for SE who seem to follow a formulaic process for every major content release. They never gamble on anything. They stick to the same old recipe that has worked for them the entirety of post 1.0 FFXIV. No doubt due to the major flop that was 1.0 they are going to continue to be risk averse. We're more likely to just see DPS buffs rather than them designing something outside their comfort zone. In fact, if anything they are trending in the opposite direction with the removal of skills and the homogenization of the roles. Utility classes bring at most 1 or 2 skills that have a minor contribution to group DPS. Utility/Support is clinging on for dear life and it is probably on it's way out the door.

[Zerathor]

People want to be viable in end game content and not feel like they are holding their teams back. There is already discrimination going on in PF because numbers matter. Some people are willing to give up their utility to avoid this discrimination and up their contribution. It is NOT the fault of those who play the jobs with utility but rather the fault of the encounter design team. Lower DPS jobs have no place in DPS race encounters. Period. It's just mathematics. I play RDM and I don't give a crap about verraise. Some people may like it and that's fine. As far as I'm concerned it can fall into the abyss never to return and I wouldn't care. Vercure can join it. It's the rest of the RDMs kit that I enjoy. However, I cannot speak for everybody.

In current encounter design, there is NO place for support/hybrids. Healers are competing for DPS. Tanks are competing for DPS. DPS are competing for, you guessed it, DPS. SE has made the end game meta evolve into one giant DPS competition for ALL roles. FF logs furthers the cause. Either SE needs to address encounter design to include a proper role for supports/hybrids or start thinking of removing the notion entirely.

And in all honesty, it sounds more like you're trying to preserve your job's position at the upper end of the DPS hierarchy rather than address the fundamental flaw that exists for DPS jobs that appear in the much lower portion of the hierarchy.

To be fair, rdm without raises and cure is just a black mage that has ver infront of all their spells flavor wise, isn't exactly a "red mage" anymore at that point. Also the ratios between what a red mage does compared to a blm isn't that far off from how it was in alphascape, the average dps values have just increased by 2x, but the ratio is relatively the same. There's actually plenty of room for support mages in progression and even reclear. If rdm were to get any kind of buff, I'd rather them just get an embolden buff than a flat personal dps buff.

[Kejara]

To be fair, rdm without raises and cure is just a black mage that has ver infront of all their spells flavor wise, isn't exactly a "red mage" anymore at that point. Also the ratios between what a red mage does compared to a blm isn't that far off from how it was in alphascape, the average dps values have just increased by 2x, but the ratio is relatively the same. There's actually plenty of room for support mages in progression and even reclear. If rdm were to get any kind of buff, I'd rather them just get an embolden buff than a flat personal dps buff.

To be even more fair, just the inclusion of a cure and a raise doesn't a red mage make either. By that definition a summoner is a red mage too. No, it is a bastardization of a beloved archetype because of SE's inability to add any meaningful support jobs due to the formulaic approach in job and encounter design. As a savage raider, I agree that we can clear content. However, this requires a team that accepts the DPS loss for bringing a RDM. There is a mathematical DPS loss that is realized as a result of bringing a RDM. In fact, why would you bring one at all? Do you often bring a contingency plan or just teach your members not to die? In the rare instance that a DPS in a farm group does die, swiftcast raise from one of the healers is almost always a better choice. It is a fact that RDMs are being openly discriminated against. I am certain that that every savage group knows they could have better DPS by excluding the RDM. It's really not about whether a static group is accepting of this fact but rather how it makes the RDM player feel. You feel like a detriment to your group because you know that you could bring better DPS on another job. Better DPS equals faster clears and less chance for death due to decreased encounter length.