Astrologian 5.0 Discussion

[FIDOISHERE]

So I really haven't touched Ast since stormblood. I'm getting used to the changes now after I dipped my toes in a bit more.

I like where they went with the cards but.. at the same time it I don't. Like okay it's easy to give a damage buff to everyone now. Healing and dps feel better cause I'm just throwing the cards out this way or that way then using the AOE buff.

I'm kinda disappointed they took away the unique buffs they gave. But Ewer and Spire are both unneeded with how they were.. bole seems pointless now. Balance is the only thing to keep really. And since it's constant damage buffs from every cars. Arrow and spear are not needed. So I guess I understand why they did what they did.

But instead of giving us just that... Couldn't we have gotten different play options? Like we have 6 cards.. that can be easily made into 6 different attacks and different types of support rather than buffs.

Either that split them into different categories kinda like now. Balance=fire dot, Spear=High potency single target, Arrow=Aoe, Ewer=500-1000mp Regen, Bole=Regen or burst heal, Spire.. I wanna say a shield but lol Everytime I get to Spire I can't come up with anything good.

So I dunno. Maybe we don't need the cards to change back really just different ways to play them..

[TankHunter678]

But Ewer and Spire are both unneeded with how they were.. bole seems pointless now.

Ewer is actually still needed for Noct AST which has MP troubles due to no secondary source of MP, and useful for helping other caster/healers with MP troubles especially outside of optimized content. Not to mention that AST generally winds up doing GCD healing more often especially in large pulls. Old Bole would still be immensely useful for helping mitigate pull damage, the far more prevalent raid wide damage, and helping with TBs as while Tank HP has gone up healing has not gone up nearly as much.

Arrow would still be useful be it for speeding up healing casts, throwing on a BLM/SAM/MCH to speed up their rotation, or using it to double the duration of the next card if we still had royal road. Spear would have been amazing with the improved Monk and let it be even more of a monster then it currently is.

Spire did need a rework, but it is not like the other cards were slouches or did not have a purpose. Spire could have been made Det which would have made it useful in all situations.

Course Balance was a problem, and apparently people only fished for balance because that is what the most optimized players did for savage, so everything was made Balance. Could have not thrown away our utility and just reworked the problem card into being Direct HIt.

[FIDOISHERE]

Ewer is actually still needed for Noct AST which has MP troubles due to no secondary source of MP, and useful for helping other caster/healers with MP troubles especially outside of optimized content. Not to mention that AST generally winds up doing GCD healing more often especially in large pulls. Old Bole would still be immensely useful for helping mitigate pull damage, the far more prevalent raid wide damage, and helping with TBs as while Tank HP has gone up healing has not gone up nearly as much.

Arrow would still be useful be it for speeding up healing casts, throwing on a BLM/SAM/MCH to speed up their rotation, or using it to double the duration of the next card if we still had royal road. Spear would have been amazing with the improved Monk and let it be even more of a monster then it currently is.

Spire did need a rework, but it is not like the other cards were slouches or did not have a purpose. Spire could have been made Det which would have made it useful in all situations.

Course Balance was a problem, and apparently people only fished for balance because that is what the most optimized players did for savage, so everything was made Balance. Could have not thrown away our utility and just reworked the problem card into being Direct HIt.

Forgive me but I'm terrible at forums lol.

I very rarely run out if mp even without Ewer however as I suggested above getting a new play option would allow 500-1000 back to us or even another player if we wanted. I would argue lightspeed and aspected benefic with benefic 2 is plenty for healing and since the cards are pure damage now Arrow isn't as useful. Of course this is my opinion. I still miss the old card system too. But thinking of moving forward with what we got and pushing for new card plays for better benefits while still having access to damage buffs all the time.

Ah yeah Spire could've been reworked into that. Wouldn't have been so bad. So I'd they adjust things properly for the old system to return can definitely see it. Just dunno since it's here to stay apparently...

Maybe they're trying to get rid of the time mage aspect to make room for an actual time mage?

[KanameYuuki]

That sounds plausible and they also got rid of Shadow Flare and with it slow, so maybe.

[Boomsmash]

Ewer is actually still needed for Noct AST which has MP troubles due to no secondary source of MP, and useful for helping other caster/healers with MP troubles especially outside of optimized content. Not to mention that AST generally winds up doing GCD healing more often especially in large pulls. Old Bole would still be immensely useful for helping mitigate pull damage, the far more prevalent raid wide damage, and helping with TBs as while Tank HP has gone up healing has not gone up nearly as much.

Arrow would still be useful be it for speeding up healing casts, throwing on a BLM/SAM/MCH to speed up their rotation, or using it to double the duration of the next card if we still had royal road. Spear would have been amazing with the improved Monk and let it be even more of a monster then it currently is.

Spire did need a rework, but it is not like the other cards were slouches or did not have a purpose. Spire could have been made Det which would have made it useful in all situations.

Course Balance was a problem, and apparently people only fished for balance because that is what the most optimized players did for savage, so everything was made Balance. Could have not thrown away our utility and just reworked the problem card into being Direct HIt.

I had to correct myself on this, but they made Aldoquin (sp) cost 1k MP for SCH, so they'd have to lower its cost as well if they messed with Noct Benefic to make it cost 500.

[ty_taurus]

Astrologian's former issue was consistency with some of the cards being great and others being situational (and spire just being downright bad). Thats why this whole change was made, but it's just such a flavorless change, and so everyone's going back and forth between the two, but can't we do something else with the cards?

If the problem was the lack of consistency, why don't we just delete Draw/Play/Redraw altogether and do something that returns the unique card effects but in a way that can be controlled.

Here's an example of what I mean:
Solar Draw: Draw either The Balance or The Spear
The Balance boosts direct hit + gives a Solar Seal
The Spear boosts critical hit + gives a Solar Seal
Solar Draw is meant to be played on DPS allies.

Lunar Draw: Draw either The Bole or The Arrow
The Bole reduces damage received + gives a Lunar Seal
The Arrow Increases healing received + gives a Lunar Seal
Lunar Draw is meant to be played on tanks.

Celestial Draw: Draw either The Spire or The Ewer
The Spire reduces MP costs by X% + Gives a Celestial Seal
The Ewer grants MP refresh to the target + Gives a Celestial Seal
Celestial Draw is meant to be played on Healers

Solar Draw, Lunar Draw, and Celestial Draw share a recast timer under normal circumstances.
Sleeve Draw removes this aspect temporarily, allowing you to use a card from each Draw, but you can't obtain seals while Sleeve Draw is in effect.

Divination gets removed and Horoscope adopts its identity, as Horoscope thematically will make more sense with the new AoE card effect:
When you have 1 of each Seal, you can activate Horoscope.
When used, Horoscope will...
Apply The Balance AND The Spear to all DPS party members.
Apply The Bole AND The Arrow to all Tank party members.
Apply The Ewer AND The Spire to all Healer party members.

Minor Arcana no longer consumes your current card. Instead, it's just its own Draw effect on a separate CD from the other 3 draws.
Lord of Crowns and Lady of Crowns return to their old effects: Lord of Crowns deals damage while Lady of Crowns heals an ally.
When using Minor Arcana, Lord and Lady will always alternate. This means if you draw The Lord of Crowns, the next card drawn by Minor Arcana will ALWAYS be the Lady and vice versa.

Restore the individual cards, but let players have general control over them so they're no longer so random that they're inconsistent. Solar Draw will be used significantly more than Lunar and Celestial, but you'll want to find opportunities to use Lunar and Celestial to enable Horoscope, so you'll look for moments where they are best applicable, as their enablement of Horoscope will grant more DPS than 2 uses of Solar Draw. You can also just burn them right out of the gate so you don't have to worry about them. This isn't optimal, but for newer players, it's easier. Not only that, but it will also be easier to learn what the cards do as you'll be conditioned to know that Solar is for DPS, Lunar is for Tanks, and Celestial is for healers.

[KanameYuuki]

...

I like those pair of cards, so if you like to balance fish you can do so just as you can be an utility AST, You keep some random chance on each seal but still consistent enough about what you could get for the party.

What if:

The Spear: increases HP restored of target via healing actions.

The Spire: Reduces MP cost for spells or Increases healing magic potency

[RegularJoe]

I had to correct myself on this, but they made Aldoquin (sp) cost 1k MP for SCH, so they'd have to lower its cost as well if they messed with Noct Benefic to make it cost 500.

Personally, I think an MP reduction cost on Noct Sect is needed. A SCH can get away with a 1k Aldo because we have Catalyze upon Crit, Recitation, Fairy abilities, Aetherflow actions, and Dissipation for further Aetherflow actions. Around 70% of a SCH's toolkit is MP free. Come to think of it, the only time I use MP as a SCH, besides the Aldo/Succor, is for Broil/AoW spam and the occasional Resurrection. Everything else is either related to the Fairy or an Aether Stack. Something has to go seriously wrong for me to even consider using Physick in a significant way or Emergency Tactics. I'll Dissipate way before that, if Fairy abilities are on cooldown.

Yes, there is resource management, but MP concern is a non-issue with regards to SCH's healing. And a SCH can potentially have up to 4 stackable shields up at one time, with 2 regen effects and a further damage reducing AoE field. Admittedly, none of that is really needed all at once, but...taking into consideration all things, it only costs a pittance at 1k Mana. A SCH's healing is mostly MP independent, whereas Nocting uses MP all the time. At this point, a Noct is paying a hefty price for instant casts and nothing more.

[ty_taurus]

I like those pair of cards, so if you like to balance fish you can do so just as you can be an utility AST, You keep some random chance on each seal but still consistent enough about what you could get for the party.

What if:

The Spear: increases HP restored of target via healing actions.

The Spire: Reduces MP cost for spells or Increases healing magic potency

I thought of that for the second tank card, but in a way, it feels a little bit the same in a lot of ways to damage reduction. Same with Spire reducing MP costs. They're great and more reliable, but was thinking more along the lines of trying to make each tank and healer card a little bit different in a way, but they'd all still work really nicely during your Horoscope window. I don't think the specific effects at that point matter too much for the sake of the concept, so either set would be fine. I guess since Redraw would be gone, the two being kinda the same in different ways could actually be better since you get a better grasp of what you'll be drawing with Lunar and Celestial with those. I'll edit the post...

[TankHunter678]

Here's an example of what I mean:
Solar Draw: Draw either The Balance or The Arrow
The Balance boosts damage output + gives a Solar Seal
The Arrow boosts Crit + gives a Solar Seal
Solar Draw is meant to be played on DPS allies.

Lunar Draw: Draw either The Bole or The Spear
The Bole reduces damage received + gives a Lunar Seal
The Spear restores a small amount of HP any time the target takes damage Increases healing received + gives a Lunar Seal
Lunar Draw is meant to be played on tanks.

Given the existing lore of the cards it would be better to swap spear and arrow. Spear lorewise creates a critical moment that opens the path to victory, hence why it gave crit. Arrow hastened the target to be swift. So Spear would be the crit card in this idea, while Arrow would be the card to either enhance the heals the target receives (hastening the effects of healing magic, just like how spellspeed increases the potency of HoTs) or grants the target a fairly nice dodge buff (hastens the reaction times of the person to make them better able to avoid damage) which would make then different flavors of damage reduction.