Thread: Astrologian 5.0 Discussion

If they had deleted Nocturnal Sect and ajusted AST so it felt like a Time Mage with regens and buffs instead of deleting the fun part of AST which was managing what you would get with the cards maybe we wouldn't have this issue. What I would do:

- Delete Nocturnal Sect

- Diurnal becomes the default with the regens and stuff

- Bring back the old cards

- Spire becomes a regen card and Balance becomes a Direct Hit card

- Bring back Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition Extended buff duration.

- Put some abilities that interact with regens and allows us to manipulate it such as turn the regen into a shield overtime, compressing regens into a big instant heal. Extending regens... stuff like that.

Yep that.

Originally Posted by Boomsmash

The problem is too many people think of it all in terms of loss. "____ is a potency loss" or whatever. It's never about what's gained vs some way, but always a loss relative to some das uber perfection that is being chased to the exclusion of all else. Why didn't they just say "fun is potency loss" and get to the bloody conclusion.

Hey, Yoshi-P. I want weaker buffs. You heard me. I want AST's buffs to be weaker, so people will stop treating them like there is One True God and it is Balance. I want the card variety back, because that utility IS AST. Not was. IS. What we have isn't an AST, we have a Balance Bot. Because those Balance fishers didn't know how to play the GAME. Just how to play their DPS meters.


New morning thought: Hey, wait, isn't making all the cards Balance pretty much the freaking distillation of the meta about the cards? And didn't the devs talk about wanting to do away with the metas? GG, you guys managed to distill the toxicity.

Yeah pretty much... if anyone is to blame is people. It's why I laugh when people want harder dungeons or mazes in dungeons cause those things will NEVER last once the players found the one true way to do everything. Once that happens you'll NEVER open unneed doors again, never walk the longer beaten path, NEVER actually do the hard content cause the players found a way to make it easier, faster, stronger and if you go off that path you WILL be screamed at. This is in all forms of content in all games. Astro was the latest victim and being that the top youtubers like astro now.. good luck having it changed.

Originally Posted by Boomsmash

The problem is that a lot of good stuff, like how the new Sleeve Draw and Redraw interact (letting you play or redraw through the entire sequence) to give you a lot of control over the cards, making all the cards Balance just gave you a bag of hammers instead of the full toolkit you have before.

Okay, so here's really the core of it. We had 6 cards, each with different effects. What those of us that liked the old system want to be able to use all the old effects. Those of us that like the new system like Every Card is Balance.

What if... What if we could always choose which card to play, or were more invoking/channeling our selected Constellation? I mean, the folks that think throwing anything but Balance is bad could just leave theirs set on Balance. And those that like the variety and know how to use more than just Balance could go Balance, Spear, Arrow, Ewer, Ewer, Bole... I don't know what the control scheme would be like, but that would make everyone happy, I think.

... Oho! Repurpose the Magia Board mechanic!!!!

• Remove Redraw, replace with Rotate Left. There's no need to Redraw when you're choosing what you Play.
• Remove Undraw, Replace with Rotate Right. It might have a reason to live if Undrawing empowered your next Play, but it doesn't so doesn't.
• Play/Invoke activates the chosen card/constellation when its cooldown is up.
• Sleeve Draw (cooldown) makes Play/Invoke have a recast of 1s or something for the next 3 cards, like it is.
• Minor Arcana stays a +Potency (cooldown), or maybe +duration?
• Replace Draw with Spread (cooldown), which makes the Play/Invoke Party/AoE buff.

Bam.

• Balance Botters have their bottage.
• Those that use all the cards can use all the cards. Those that aren't +damage can have longer durations perhaps?
• We have a way to fire the card as AoE on demand, with a cooldown that can be adjusted to regulate its effect on balancing.
• We have a way to heighten a card's effect on demand, with potency and cooldown that can be adjusted to regulate its effect on balancing.

I'd be shocked if SE even choose anything that looks like that. I will say tho you'll have 2 issues, one... Meta WILL make you and others go for balance and if you don't you'll be shamed, hell this happens now with other meta things. And the other thing would be people complaining it's too hard. So those things alone would stop SE from doing something like that. Hell look at what they did to MCH. The other thing is changing the cards again and SE already said they like them all being of use instead of a maybe they are useful. Those are the issues I see happening with the card system.

Originally Posted by Insertcoins

I'd be shocked if SE even choose anything that looks like that. I will say tho you'll have 2 issues, one... Meta WILL make you and others go for balance and if you don't you'll be shamed, hell this happens now with other meta things. And the other thing would be people complaining it's too hard. So those things alone would stop SE from doing something like that. Hell look at what they did to MCH. The other thing is changing the cards again and SE already said they like them all being of use instead of a maybe they are useful. Those are the issues I see happening with the card system.

1) Meta? You mean the people that have statics full of L80 Savage raiders that avoid every bit of avoidable damage, and have all their gear maximized, so can keep throwing Balance and are bored out of their skulls? That's fine, they can. And those that shame like that can get reported for harassment.

My suggestion plays almost EXACTLY the same as the current method if you just select Balance and only use that. Hell, it's easier because I didn't include the seals and edges, but if you're grown up enough to be running a Savage static you can share your damage buffs or accept where they need to go. Those of us in the other 99% of the game can use Balance and the rest of the toolbox too.

2) This is an issue that was associated with what was drawn being random. If we are choosing which constellation to invoke, what gets used is what you feel is useful when you use it.

Seriously, if SavEx are bored, their L80 skill or a new trait needs to be focused on engaging them, not making them happy at the expense of the people at L1-79...

Originally Posted by Boomsmash

1) Meta? You mean the people that have statics full of L80 Savage raiders that avoid every bit of avoidable damage, and have all their gear maximized, so can keep throwing Balance and are bored out of their skulls? That's fine, they can. And those that shame like that can get reported for harassment.

My suggestion plays almost EXACTLY the same as the current method if you just select Balance and only use that. Hell, it's easier because I didn't include the seals and edges, but if you're grown up enough to be running a Savage static you can share your damage buffs or accept where they need to go. Those of us in the other 99% of the game can use Balance and the rest of the toolbox too.

2) This is an issue that was associated with what was drawn being random. If we are choosing which constellation to invoke, what gets used is what you feel is useful when you use it.

Seriously, if SavEx are bored, their L80 skill or a new trait needs to be focused on engaging them, not making them happy at the expense of the people at L1-79...

No misunderstanding it's a change that might work.. I just have no hope SE would change it to something like that. They NEED too but I'm not betting my air on it. :c

Originally Posted by MPNZ

You're both correct, tbh. But, it really needsto be explaned that AST-the-balance-fisher exist because of the same reasons that strength-tanks were a literal scourge in normal dungeons: It's a set of skills/gear that are over-optimized for for the highest difficulty and skilled player to use and is then emumulated by lower skilled and aspiring players that don't really understand why they are used and believe that is the best set-up/use of skills for that job and proceeded to become detrimental to the entire experiece, blame everyonein the party for dragging them down, and be generally act like toxic pig-headed jerks. Strength tanks (not recommended by top raiders for normal content, and was bewildering to many that I would run into in instances) would wipe parties and were super stressful to heal. Balance AST played sub-optimally in normal/casual combat and was easiliy bested by Casual WHMs outside top level instances and raids. And, as such, AST is basically been hypertuned to only be useful at the topmost levels of play with data skewed highly by emulation of top tier players

IMHO

This crushes me honestly, because it's true. AST pDPS isn't enough to save it if your party isn't efficient with the cards you are using/divination use. The other two healers don't have this problem in my opinion. Before ShB I feel like we had enough raw power to gloss over this with the old cared system and our speedy damage (both OP I know, but yeah) now however, I feel like I'm a detriment in some cases due to this.

Originally Posted by MPNZ

You're both correct, tbh. But, it really needsto be explaned that AST-the-balance-fisher exist because of the same reasons that strength-tanks were a literal scourge in normal dungeons: It's a set of skills/gear that are over-optimized for for the highest difficulty and skilled player to use and is then emumulated by lower skilled and aspiring players that don't really understand why they are used and believe that is the best set-up/use of skills for that job and proceeded to become detrimental to the entire experiece, blame everyonein the party for dragging them down, and be generally act like toxic pig-headed jerks. Strength tanks (not recommended by top raiders for normal content, and was bewildering to many that I would run into in instances) would wipe parties and were super stressful to heal. Balance AST played sub-optimally in normal/casual combat and was easiliy bested by Casual WHMs outside top level instances and raids. And, as such, AST is basically been hypertuned to only be useful at the topmost levels of play with data skewed highly by emulation of top tier players

IMHO

I forgot that horrible time that was ST tanks, it's also because of the hardcore raiding scene that they introduced this annoying combat only crap on a lot of jobs.