Goodbye Astro

[Billythepancake]

I did say "AST is strong and healers are balanced". "It's ok for it to not be well designed" is not something I said, but something you attributed to me.

The example I gave is just one of the interesting things you can do with the new system. There are others things, like stacking as many single target cards as you can with Divination. These are just cool things you can do to improve your contribution, but are in no way required. The card buffs will be useful regardless. In response to the person saying it's just a coin flip.

The reason the new system is better designed is because it's not an RNG-fest, but a reliable, predictable system you can balance. The fact that people can't get over a system they're used to does not change that.

You didn't flat out say "the new system is badly designed" but considering that fans here, and in every other region, are going over how it is a far cry of what is what it used to be, with a lot of people being upset about it both in forums and in game, ergo, leading people to saying it's bad design. In a vacuum, your argument might be alright, but it is not a vacuum, what we had before fit people's play style, and felt better to use, and having something like this is a downgrade, maybe not in terms of sheer numbers or raw output, but in terms of how it feels to play at both a basic level and at a high level, at the very least comparatively. Taking steps backwards, in what is arguably the most important aspect of a job (how it feels and how it plays) is bad design, and advocating that, while not flat out saying "bad design is okay", is still arguing for bad design.

Edit because daily post limits are stupid:

I will continue to defend the new card system because 5.05 is the first time I've ever considered playing AST as anything other than a break from SCH.

Don't pretend like there's some kind of unanimity. I'm not the only one who prefers the new card system. Excessive RNG is bad for you.

So because it appeals to you and a small other group of people it's good design? Is that what you're saying? So people who prefer the RNG on a card based class, you know cards, something that is RNG by nature, are wrong to say that ast in 4.x was fun and well designed? You know Sonic 06? There are people who like that game, a very small group of people but they do exist, so because of their existence should we consider Sonic 06 to be a well designed game?

I can agree that, imo, I didnt like RNG, but RNG does fit the themes of a card based class. A better solution imo,would have been to simply have a way to manipulate the RNG, but at a cost. Something like you can guarantee a balance or whatever card you're looking for, but the ability that does that has a long CD, say 60 seconds, and your next draw/redraw is guaranteed to not be that card. This way you can guarantee get balance every other card if you want it, but the rng and different effects are still there. Or you can gamble and see if you get a balance without using it, so you can get 2 balances in a row. One way is more consistent, the other way there's a chance that you could do better if you have good luck. Both sides can be happy, or at least one side is less frustrated with the other side not upset.

[LariaKirin]

You didn't flat out say "the new system is badly designed" but considering that fans here, and in every other region, are going over how it is a far cry of what is what it used to be, with a lot of people being upset about it both in forums and in game, ergo, leading people to saying it's bad design. In a vacuum, your argument might be alright, but it is not a vacuum, what we had before fit people's play style, and felt better to use, and having something like this is a downgrade, maybe not in terms of sheer numbers or raw output, but in terms of how it feels to play at both a basic level and at a high level, at the very least comparatively. Taking steps backwards, in what is arguably the most important aspect of a job (how it feels and how it plays) is bad design, and advocating that, while not flat out saying "bad design is okay", is still arguing for bad design.

I will continue to defend the new card system because 5.05 is the first time I've ever considered playing AST as anything other than a break from SCH.

Don't pretend like there's some kind of unanimity. I'm not the only one who prefers the new card system. Excessive RNG is bad for you.

[Mesarthim]

I will continue to defend the new card system because 5.05 is the first time I've ever considered playing AST as anything other than a break from SCH.

Don't pretend like there's some kind of unanimity. I'm not the only one who prefers the new card system. Excessive RNG is bad for you.

The same can be said about your incessant defense against anyone who would dare go against your opinion. Don't overvalue yourself. Go ahead and defend this "card system" you like so much but get over yourself, your defense over this card system doesn't devalue what we like about the old one.

[LariaKirin]

The same can be said about your incessant defense against anyone who would dare go against your opinion. Don't overvalue yourself. Go ahead and defend this "card system" you like so much but get over yourself, your defense over this card system doesn't devalue what we like about the old one.

It's not my fault you're taking this personally. I would advise that you simply ignore my posts or block me.

[Faxmonkey]

I will continue to defend the new card system because 5.05 is the first time I've ever considered playing AST as anything other than a break from SCH.

Don't pretend like there's some kind of unanimity. I'm not the only one who prefers the new card system. Excessive RNG is bad for you.

Having 7 abilities for an effect that other classes have with 1 ability is crap, especially if you pay for it with less healing options than the other two classes. Explain to me how that design will hold up in the future, if they we take their stated goal of "healers healing & every healer combo should be able to do the content" seriously. Either SCH & WHM excess abilities will turn out to be superflous and groups will want the % scaling Divination buff maybe even 2x, or AST will be gimped in the healing department and be dropped.

[LariaKirin]

Having 7 abilities for an effect that other classes have with 1 ability is crap, especially if you pay for it with less healing options than the other two classes. Explain to me how that design will hold up in the future, if they we take their stated goal of "healers healing & every healer combo should be able to do the content" seriously. Either SCH & WHM excess abilities will turn out to be superflous and groups will want the % scaling Divination buff maybe even 2x, or AST will be gimped in the healing department and be dropped.

It is not gimped at all and you do not pay for it in healing options. AST's healing is very strong following the changes in patch 5.05. As I've said before, the healers are pretty well balanced right now and AST is just as strong as SCH/WHM. It will take a while for people to realize this, but it will happen.

We're overflowing with threads saying "Goodbye Astro", "AST is dead", etc... that discourage people for playing it. But soon enough some encouraging posts will surface. Such as the E4S noct AST solo heal.

As for doing more for the same effect ... Well ... Haven't people been complaining incessantly that there's nothing to do? You'd expect AST to be the darling of the community right now.

[Billythepancake]

It is not gimped at all and you do not pay for it in healing options. AST's healing is very strong following the changes in patch 5.05. As I've said before, the healers are pretty well balanced right now and AST is just as strong as SCH/WHM. It will take a while for people to realize this, but it will happen.

"Strong and balanced" will not make people want to play a class. SB MCH was "strong and balanced" but it was the least played class of the expansion because it felt like trash to play, sounds familiar doesnt it?

[Mesarthim]

It is not gimped at all and you do not pay for it in healing options. AST's healing is very strong following the changes in patch 5.05. As I've said before, the healers are pretty well balanced right now and AST is just as strong as SCH/WHM. It will take a while for people to realize this, but it will happen.

We're overflowing with threads saying "Goodbye Astro", "AST is dead", etc... that discourage people for playing it. But soon enough some encouraging posts will surface. Such as the E4S noct AST solo heal.

As for doing more for the same effect ... Well ... Haven't people been complaining incessantly that there's nothing to do? You'd expect AST to be the darling of the community right now.

What was your favorite phrase? Get over it? You really seem to be banking on this "it will happen. It will take time. My opinion is already true and everyone is wrong and slow to realize." Here's the thing, the old system wasn't as busted as you seem to be claiming it was. At worst spire needed an adjustment and heaven forbid maybe balance into something else. Now we effectively have one of the clunkiest openers and a lot of busywork for what seems to be little payoff. Patch 5.05 fixed sleeve draw feeling god awful as well as "most" healing potencies (Square seems to have missed CU) but the complaints aren't about how well the class heals.

[LariaKirin]

"Strong and balanced" will not make people want to play a class. SB MCH was "strong and balanced" but it was the least played class of the expansion because it felt like trash to play, sounds familiar doesnt it?

Two friends have switched to playing AST. I am now way more inclined to play AST. Yes, these are anecdotes, but none of us would have even considered it in 5.0. Are you willing to claim that the proportion of AST players will not increase at all in the following weeks?

What was your favorite phrase? Get over it? You really seem to be banking on this "it will happen. It will take time. My opinion is already true and everyone is wrong and slow to realize." Here's the thing, the old system wasn't as busted as you seem to be claiming it was. At worst spire needed an adjustment and heaven forbid maybe balance into something else. Now we effectively have one of the clunkiest openers and a lot of busywork for what seems to be little payoff. Patch 5.05 fixed sleeve draw feeling god awful as well as "most" healing potencies (Square seems to have missed CU) but the complaints aren't about how well the class heals.

AST being stronger now in both healing and DPS is not a matter of opinion. All you need to do is look at 5.0, then look at 5.05 and then be able to understand some numbers.

Do you think that AST being extremely weak in terms of healing and DPS had nothing to do with the low proportion of AST players?
Do you think that the cards and the opener are the only reason AST was not being played in 5.0?

If the answer to these is no, then you should be able to understand why I think the AST population will increase and why I'm optimistic about AST's future.

[Billythepancake]

Two friends have switched to playing AST. I am now way more inclined to play AST. Yes, these are anecdotes, but none of us would have even considered it in 5.0. Are you willing to claim that the proportion of AST players will not increase at all in the following weeks?



AST being stronger now in both healing and DPS is not a matter of opinion. All you need to do is look at 5.0, then look at 5.05 and then be able to understand some numbers.

Do you think that AST being extremely weak in terms of healing and DPS had nothing to do with the low proportion of AST players?
Do you think that the cards and the opener are the only reason AST was not being played in 5.0?

If the answer to these is no, then you should be able to understand why I think the AST population will increase and why I'm optimistic about AST's future.

It will increase, sure, but I dont believe for 1 second that it'll be nearly as popular as it was in SB. I have no doubt if AST stays the way it is, it'll be the MCH of this expac.