MMORPGs How they have changed for the better? or worse?

[Nixxe]

Depression, Anxiety disorders, personality disorder are diseases, and are pandemic to some countries, and one of the factors in it's increase is the long exposure to videogames: Particulary MMORPGs.
I never said videogames were a disease. Im saying they make people with some diseases even more sick, and in several countries of the world, these diseases are in fact, pandemic.

See, South Korea and Japan. Countries where the dissociation with real life - a healthy biosocial network is not possible for a lot of people because they just shut into their rooms to do mostly anime, series, or videogames. Yeah, wine and beer are not diseases, nor are hamburguers. Alcoholism and Morbid Obesity are.
Same here.

The assumption that something must be wrong with people who take one look at a given society and say no thanks is utterly hilarious to say the least.

[Edax]

The assumption that something must be wrong with people who take one look at a given society and say no thanks is utterly hilarious to say the least.

I agree. I've studied just how overworked Japanese students and salary-men can get, or how companies over there hire for life. I will not look down on a NEET for rejecting that lifestyle.
I was pressured into getting a college degree and it made me miserable. I was pressured into my first two jobs and they made me miserable. How can I look down at people who who would rather be happy? Making money for the company I work for certainly isn't bringing me joy and it's not something I'll look back on in 40 years with any pride. If a shut-in wants to play FFXIV and they can afford it, then I say more power to them.

[Liam_Harper]

The only thing I miss in gaming is games that weren't afraid to be complex or difficult.

Like the mmo's where your quest npc's would be among high level mobs and you'd have to find what to do from the quest text alone. MMO's where they weren't afraid to ask you to make your own arrows, poison for your blades, find the ingredients. Games like the old pokemon or other rpg's with those labyrinth mazes that you'd spend hours lost in, barely making it out with your team at their limit. Those old Tomb raiders with the few save crystals buried hidden in dangerous spots in the zone. Those puzzles where there was a single hard to see switch or trigger somewhere in a huge area and you were expected to find it. Those ccg's that weren't afraid to include all sorts of indepth strategies and no explanations as to how to utilize them.

Nowadays gaming can sometimes feel insulting, like your intelligence as a player is constantly being severely underestimated. Developers seem afraid that almost anything that involves figuring out will be too complicated for players. I can understand why they do it and making games accessible probably sells them to a wider audience, but it's still a little sad. Anything not seen as straightforward is inevitably nerfed or simplified. FF is far from the worst game in this regard, but it's one reason I left WoW. That game constantly felt insulting.

I still enjoy gaming quite a lot, so it's a little nitpick, but I do miss the days when it felt my intelligence and patience was actually being tested and the developers expectations for me felt high.

[Nixxe]

but it's one reason I left WoW. That game constantly felt insulting.

I never felt insulted because I'm simply not inclined to ever feel insulted, but the steady decay of WoW in the name of "accessibility" is certainly one of the great tragedies of video game history.

[FunkYeahDragons]

I'm actually not a fan of most of the QoL changes the past few years: GC freelancing, cross-server PF, world visit, instanced zones, etc. They've streamlined the game while also making it very lonely because there's no real benefit to FCs, Linkshells, etc, outside of chat. There was a point where you could solo, but it was more beneficial to call on someone. The pool of players has become both very large and very diluted.

I started out on servers that were small- to medium-sized in Heavensward, like Zalera and Cactuar, and I built up pretty sizeable pools of familiar faces and Linkshells. People who were either teaching me or being taught by me. A social Linkshell I started with one friend that slowly became filled with other people new to Cactuar (still running today!). PVP Linkshells because it was better to Frontlines with other scrubs than alone.

No longer a thing. Rebuilding my old Linkshell as a CWLS is a much longer, slower process than it was the first time because we're now encompassing an entire datacenter. I'm holding out for some actually meaningful FC content. All I do with mine is make a little small talk while I fish.

[Vidu]

I am glad you have decided for everyone what an MMORPG needs to be. Perhaps these 'depressed, broken people' you spoke of sought an escape. Perhaps their circumstances made it so that they couldn't go out into the real world(physical disability) or did not wish to(social issues). Or perhaps it was simply more stimulating them to play complex games that engaged their brain. Now, a place where those players could feel like they had a home has been taken away. Now, all that exists are casual MMOs really. People have made RL friends and even significant others from these second homes that you criticize. I guess what I'm trying to say is, who are you to decide how others should spend their time?

I havent much to say on the issue that this thread is actually discussing since FFXIV is the first MMO I've ever played and I havent read the whole thread either, I just stumbled over this comment and have to say: I can relate to the talk about making RL-friendships and meeting your SO through the game.
And thats the reason I want to comment on this - remember that I said this was the first (and infact only) MMO I ever played? (I kinda do hope you remember because if you dont, you might wanna see a doctor for short-term-memory-loss... besides the point)

Maybe I'm missunderstanding your comment, but it seems to imply to me that you dont believe that making meanigful, real life connections is possible in this game - or in other "casual MMOs" - and I just want to assure you that it still is, that it still happens and that people are still grateful for that. And everytime I see comments wishing back for "the old days" when they could find friends within the game they were playing, I cant help but to think about all the amazing from all over the world that are in my FC and came to the last two EU-fanfests so we could all meet up, despite living thousands of kilometers apart. I cant help but remember a 10-hour flight I took to america to visit a friend from the game and about the other people who took a simliar long flight so we could all spend 2 amazing weeks together. I cant help to think about how I would have never met my boyfriend if it wasnt for this game!

Please, dont missunderstand this as me disagreeing with you - its very much the opposite! All I want to do is to point out that all of those amazing things - longlasting, meanigful friendships, finding love, finding joy - are still happening today, in this game and thats an amazing thing!
And I feel sorry for those who cant see that - probably not you, Zabuza, but certainly some other people here...

[Rufalus]

These replies are very on point. I agree, for sure there are different things that are good about old and new mmos, and many of those are not compatible with each other. Sometimes I miss certain things that old games did well, but most people today wouldn't like that style. At least that's what mmo devs believe and growth of subscriptions supports that.

Making money for the company I work for certainly isn't bringing me joy and it's not something I'll look back on in 40 years with any pride. If a shut-in wants to play FFXIV and they can afford it, then I say more power to them.

It's cool to see somebody who's aware of that and tolerant. I used to push myself to mental exhaustion, depression and break down. After a recovery period I began to live a much more self indulgent lifestyle, spending most of my time doing what I enjoy without feeling guilty about it. If there's no happiness then everything else in life loses meaning. We're people not machines. Talking like this reminds me of Eulmore..

I never felt insulted because I'm simply not inclined to ever feel insulted, but the steady decay of WoW in the name of "accessibility" is certainly one of the great tragedies of video game history.

At least for that specific game they made Classic version so the option is there to reject modern QoL. I hear it's quite authentic to the original.

[Ayer2015]

I also remember how much of a time sink MMOs were.... time I no longer have, or want, to dedicate to a game.

[Nixxe]

At least for that specific game they made Classic version so the option is there to reject modern QoL. I hear it's quite authentic to the original.

I'm done doing business with Blizzard, but Classic wouldn't satisfy me anyway. I want a game that's still being developed, just in accordance with an older design philosophy, not a basically time locked blast from the past. Classic would have been a nice break, but I would have eventually run out of interesting things to do.

[Zabuza]

I havent much to say on the issue that this thread is actually discussing since FFXIV is the first MMO I've ever played and I havent read the whole thread either, I just stumbled over this comment and have to say: I can relate to the talk about making RL-friendships and meeting your SO through the game.
And thats the reason I want to comment on this - remember that I said this was the first (and infact only) MMO I ever played? (I kinda do hope you remember because if you dont, you might wanna see a doctor for short-term-memory-loss... besides the point)

Maybe I'm missunderstanding your comment, but it seems to imply to me that you dont believe that making meanigful, real life connections is possible in this game - or in other "casual MMOs" - and I just want to assure you that it still is, that it still happens and that people are still grateful for that. And everytime I see comments wishing back for "the old days" when they could find friends within the game they were playing, I cant help but to think about all the amazing from all over the world that are in my FC and came to the last two EU-fanfests so we could all meet up, despite living thousands of kilometers apart. I cant help but remember a 10-hour flight I took to america to visit a friend from the game and about the other people who took a simliar long flight so we could all spend 2 amazing weeks together. I cant help to think about how I would have never met my boyfriend if it wasnt for this game!

Please, dont missunderstand this as me disagreeing with you - its very much the opposite! All I want to do is to point out that all of those amazing things - longlasting, meanigful friendships, finding love, finding joy - are still happening today, in this game and thats an amazing thing!
And I feel sorry for those who cant see that - probably not you, Zabuza, but certainly some other people here...

Well, all I know is for me, the closest bonds I formed on an MMO were doing the Chains of Promathia missions with my static for the story at the time. Similar to how those who fight together on a battlefield form a unique, tight knit bond, the same applies when people struggle together. It doesn't exist as much in games like these because there really is no need for people to struggle together. Savage is optional and can easily be done in PF with people you won't see again. All the other content is done in DF, and you DEFINITELY don't see them again. The struggle with a certain group of people on a persistent basis is notably absent. With dungeons, you're lucky if you get a 'hi' from the people in your random group. The rest is just speed running the content, while probably looking at something on your other monitor. There is very little engagement, and most people only do them to reach their weekly tomestone cap.